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Message: <blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 4543743" data-attributes="member: 6777">With all due respect, howandwhy99, I think bringing in the topic of acting is really confusing the issue. It's certainly confusing me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> We're not talking about acting. We're talking about role-playing games.As for your list, I would say that #2 is something that RPG design trends have been fighting against quite vehemently. Most of the games that have come out of the Forge actively thwart it.As for White Wolf, yes, I've heard that argument made. It's bogus, of course. By playing D&D, one is, by definition, portraying an imaginary character that is not them. That they may not be prioritizing character immersion is irrelevant. The whole game is based on the idea that players are taking on the roles of individual adventurers in an imagined environment.The point I am trying to make is that a game does not become a role-paying game simply because a player decides to "role-play" (in the dictionary sense) while in proximity to the game pieces. That is basically an extreme version of <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/11/" target="_blank">System Doesn't Matter</a>, and I honestly consider the idea fully debunked at this point. A role-playing game is a role-playing game because the game is based on the idea that players will be playing roles, and doing so is germane to the functionality of the game. It's immaterial whether the players engage those roles to kick ass (GNS-Gamism), explore a fantastic world (GNS-Simulationism), or address a thematic premise (GNS-Narrativism). It's all role-playing.And, no matter how hard you try, Monopoly and Chess cannot accomplish any of those things, because they are not role-playing games. Their rules function identically regardless of whether you are pretending to be someone else or not. Doing so has zero impact. There are no characters, no fictional world, no narrative, nada.</blockquote>

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