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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4633954" data-attributes="member: 22779">Well, if by even fight you mean that the party has a 50% chance of dying, then I'm right with you on that.  EL+4 encounters are doable but the chances of fatalities are very, very high.  Considering that a given creature of a given CR can kill an equal leveled PC in a single round by and large, using multiple par CR creatures should result in fatalities fairly often.This is very much not my experience actually.  The non-core classes are almost universally less powerful than the core classes, with very few exceptions.  Every single poll on En World that asked to rank the power of the various classes put core classes at the top every single time.  It's CoDzilla for a reason.  There are a number of <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/200150-factors-affecting-cr-el.html" target="_blank">Factors that can affect CR and EL</a> but splat books aren't usually a major issue.In the past when this has come up, the biggest culprits have always been high point buy values of PC's (usually the result of die roll creation) and using a lot of humanoid classed opponents.  If you're using monsters and 25 point buy characters, EL+4 will result in fatalities regularly.</blockquote>