WtH(ybrid)?!?!?!

[Herschel]

On a whim I rebuilt my 14th level Assault Swordmage in to a Swordmage/Barbarian hybrid. I took Barbarian Armored Agility and not Swordmage Warding (and leather to hide) and switched his longsword for a Glaive to see what kind of defensive hit I'd take for a little added offense.

Hit? What hit?!?!?!

Same Will, all but kept the same AC, gained three points of Reflex and three points of Fortitude while maintaining the same number of HP. If I take Improved Swordmage Warding (which I'll show now, I just hit 14 and can re-train) I can give my straight Swordmage a +1 bump to AC again but wow, that was an eye-opener. I did take Hafted Defense and both builds have Paragon Defenses, but otherwise that's really it.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Can you post the before and after? Because frankly, that just doesn't sound possible.

 

[Herschel]

Double post

 

[Herschel]

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Rorthrock, level 14
Genasi, Swordmage, Elemental Tempest
Build: Assault Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Assault
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Spear)
Elemental Manifestation: Earthsoul
Earthshock: Earthshock Strength
Extra Manifestation: Causticsoul
Background: Thay (Thay Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 22, Wis 9, Cha 11.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 10.

AC: 33 Fort: 26 Reflex: 27 Will: 23
HP: 125 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 31
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +18, Endurance +17, Athletics +18, History +18
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, Insight +6, Intimidate +7, Nature +8, Perception +6, Religion +13, Stealth +8, Streetwise +7, Thievery +8
FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 2: Toughness
Level 4: Earthshock Master
Level 6: Elemental Echo
Level 8: Versatile Expertise
Level 10: Extra Manifestation
Level 11: Foul Torrent
Level 12: Improved Swordmage Warding
Level 14: Greater Swordmage Warding

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Viper Belt (heroic tier), Cloak of Survival +2, Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Voidcrystal Longsword +3, Sling Bullet (18), Power Jewel (heroic tier), Keoghtom's Ointment (paragon tier), Drowmesh of Resistance +3, Distance Javelin +1, Battlemaster's Longsword +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Augmenting Whetstone (level 6) (4), Starlight Goggles (heroic tier), Demonskin Tattoo (paragon tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Test, level 14
Genasi, Barbarian|Swordmage, Elemental Tempest
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Hybrid Talent: Barbarian Armored Agility
Elemental Manifestation: Earthsoul
Earthshock: Earthshock Strength
Extra Manifestation: Causticsoul
Background: Thay (Thay Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 22, Wis 11, Cha 9.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8.

AC: 32 Fort: 29 Reflex: 30 Will: 23
HP: 125 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 31
TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +17, Athletics +17, Arcana +18
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +7, Heal +7, History +13, Insight +7, Intimidate +6, Nature +9, Perception +7, Religion +13, Stealth +7, Streetwise +6, Thievery +7
FEATS
Level 1: Toughness
Level 2: Extra Manifestation
Level 4: Hafted Defense
Level 6: Earthshock Master
Level 8: Hybrid Talent
Level 10: White Lotus Riposte
Level 11: Paragon Defenses
Level 12: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 14: Foul Torrent

ITEMS
Earthhide Armor of Resistance +3, Acidic Glaive +3, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Viper Belt (heroic tier), Cloak of Survival +3, Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[pemerton]

Same Will, all but kept the same AC, gained three points of Reflex and three points of Fortitude while maintaining the same number of HP. If I take Improved Swordmage Warding (which I'll show now, I just hit 14 and can re-train) I can give my straight Swordmage a +1 bump to AC again but wow, that was an eye-opener. I did take Hafted Defense and both builds have Paragon Defenses, but otherwise that's really it.

I'm not an expert on 4e builds, but from my reading:

*Your 2nd character has a +3 rather than +2 neck item. Factoring in only a +2 enhancement bonus means -1AC, +2F, +2R, -1W for the new build.

*Your 2nd character is equipped with Hide, which a hybrid SM/Barb is not proficient in (SM is leather only). Changing back to Drowmesh is -1 AC, -1F, +1R.

That means the new build has overall -2AC, +1F, +3R, -1W. And you've spent 1 extra feat on defences (Par Def, Hafted Def and Hybrid Talent vs the two Swordmage Warding feats).

Also, your new build isn't eligible for Improved Swordmage Warding, because it doesn't have the relevant class feature.

 

[Herschel]

I missed that I'm still at a +2 cloak (I've been saving my loot to upgrade but have yet to do so) so my non-ACs are only up two). I added Improved Warding as I'm retraining now to get that +1 but I'm not sure if I'm keeping it yet. I was expecting to have to take a real hit for hybriding him and it turns out I didn't for combining him with a striker. Even HP say the same. I thought that was odd.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Okay, I get it now. I didn't realize you meant a complete and utter rebuild.

 

[Gort]

I was expecting to have to take a real hit for hybriding him and it turns out I didn't for combining him with a striker. Even HP say the same. I thought that was odd.

Primal characters tend to have higher HP than standard.

 

[Herschel]

I'd absolutely LOVE to get my Swordmage Thunder Hooves Rage (and Curtain of Steel) but alas, he's LFR and I've been playing him for a couple of years now, long before Hybrid rules came out.

 

[keterys]

Your swordmage mark is also a bit less versatile. But, yeah, some hybrids work out okay.

You're also at -2 to hit with the second one, since you traded Versatile Expertise for Hybrid Talent and a +3 prof to a +2 prof.