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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UltimaGabe" data-source="post: 1876206" data-attributes="member: 16019">Hey, everyone. I'm playing a Wu Jen in an upcoming campaign, and, over the last few days, I've been looking over the Wu Jen spells a lot. And the conclusion I've come to, for the majorty of the Wu Jen-only spells, is that... well... they kinda suck. I mean, they sound cool and all, but the majority of them do far too little for their level, and can easily be duplicated (to greater effect) with a lower-level spell.Take, for example, Cloud Chariot.Cloud Chariot is a 7th-level Wu Jen [Water] spell that, for 10 minutes (10 minutes, not 10 minutes/level), creates a chariot of clouds that people can ride on that can go as fast as 10 miles a minute. Alright, that's neat, it goes pretty fast, alright. But it can only go 100 miles maximum, and in almost every case a Teleport spell would be better. I mean, there are definitely situations where it could be incredibly useful (such as chasing a fast enemy), but is it really worth being a 7th-level spell? After all, that's the level of Limited Wish and Greater Teleport. 7th-level?Also, let's look at Rain of Needles.Rain of Needles is a 2nd-level Wu Jen [Metal] spell that, at maximum, can do 20 points of damage to a SINGLE target, no save. If you cause it to affect two targets, that's 10 points of damage each, four targets get 5 points each, and so on. And that's the MAXIMUM it can do, at 5th-level. It even requires a Ranged Attack roll against each target. Then, look at Hail of Stone- a 1st-level spell that has the same damage cap (5d4), except that it affects everyone in a 5-foot radius, doesn't require an attack roll, and doesn't need a save- so, at maximum, it could do 20 points of damage to FOUR people. True, it has a 5-gp material component as a balancing factor, but it's a FULL LEVEL below Rain of Needles. What gives?Also, one error I noticed in the Wall of Bones spell is that, according to the spell, a creature can attempt to make a Strength check to break through the wall, with a DC of 15 + 2 per caster level, maximum +10- meaning that you get the maximum effect once you've reached 5th level. Well, it's a 4th-level spell, meaning you can't even cast it until you're 7th level. Is the cap supposed to be higher? Is it supposed to be +1 per level instead of +2 per level?Oh, and Protection from Charm (Wu Jen 2) doesn't seem useful to me at all. It grants the recipient a resistance bonus of +1 per three caster levels (maximum +5) against any Will save against a Charm of Compulsion spell or effect. That, in and of itself, isn't very good (considering that it's a resistance bonus, which every PC is going to have by the time it's useful, as well as the fact that it only goes to one save). But the worst part? It's only a round/level! So, for a 2nd-level spell, you get a bonus to one save that probably won't stack with what you already have, and the only time you'll be able to cast it is when you know someone's about to cast a Charm or Compulsion spell on you. What the heck?And another thing. Internal Fire (9th-level Wu Jen [Fire] spell) sounds great- it's a Save-or-Die spell that, if the target makes their save, they take 6d6 fire damage. Well, the problem with it, of course, is that it can only affect 1HD/level of creatures. So you could either use it to take out one big thing (which will be useless, considering that the majority of creatures you'll be fighting by the time you're able to cast 9th-level spells will either A. be immune to fire, or B. have more Hit Dice than you. You could always try and kill two smaller creatures with it, but they'd have to be pretty low-HD monsters in order to affect them. I mean, it's a good spell (considering it's an instant kill without being a death effect), but it's 9th-level for crying out loud! Decapitating Scarf is an instant kill without being a death effect as well, but it doesn't have the HD cap, and it's 7th-level.The Wu Jen is a cool class, and I really like the flavor of a lot of their spells, they just suck. Is this intentional? (I.e., were they like this in the Oriental Adventures setting?) Does anyone know if there's any erratta on any of these spells, or does anyone have any suggestions for making their spells... well... less sucky?Any help would be most appreciated.</blockquote>

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