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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 245039" data-attributes="member: 4036">Here's a quote from the Official D&D Frequently Asked Questions guide.  It is in regards to something else, but it addresses reflex saves when you have no dexterity modifier.  Just like when you are grappled and you lose your dexterity modifier to AC vs. external sources."Being flat-footed negates your Dexterity bonus to ArmorClass, but it does not affect your ability to make opposed rolls.Your ability to react to danger is somewhat compromised whenflat-footed, but only slightly. For example, you become subjectto sneak attacks, but you make saving throws (even Reflexsaving throws) normally."The DMG lists some situations where in evasion doesn't apply like PirateCat's aforementioned completely filled hallway with no where to dodge etc, and though it suggests a circumstance penalty to the Reflex Save, it doesn't negate the ability to attempt to minimize the damage.In a grapple you are still moving around and wiggling and can get out of the way.  In a pin you are still capable of trying to take cover  underneath your pinner.The simplest way to adjucate it IMHO is to ask whether there is a chance to turn, move, take cover, dodge, react, or even for luck to intervene for a hero.  If so, give them their reflex save but penalize it if you feel the situation justifies it.  There might be an air pocket in that swirling inferno of a fireball that the monk's uncanny senses allow him to locate and move with.  For evasion, if there is no way they can avoid some of the damage and minimize the rest (they are tied to a wall and blasted by lightning bolt) take away the evasion as per the rules but still allow the reflex save.  They might be able to twist or turn in their bonds just enough to not take the full brunt of the spell.Even sleeping creatures get reflex saves.  Does it say anywhere that a helpless character is denied reflex saves, maybe in hold person somewhere?Edit:  From the SRD:"Bound, held, sleeping, paralyzed, or unconscious characters are helpless. Enemies can make advantageous attacks against helpless characters, or even deliver a usually lethal coup de grace.A melee attack against a helpless character is at a +4 bonus on the attack roll (equivalent to attacking a prone target). A ranged attack gets no special bonus. A helpless defender can't use any Dexterity bonus to AC. In fact, his Dexterity score is treated as if it were 0 and his Dexterity modifier to AC were -5 (and a rogue can sneak attack him)."Now I'm sure, though I can't find it so burn me as you see fit, that sleeping has been ruled a situation you still get a reflex save in.  And sleeping is listed under the helpless condition summary.  So if I'm right, then the rules as currently stated allow reflex saves even when held, just not evasion.  I'll keep looking.</blockquote>

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