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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 3036696" data-attributes="member: 3051">This is a balance question for a loosely D&D-based homebrew my friends and I have been playing for a while, but the concept could be translated over to D&D pretty easily.We use a more element-based magic system, and one thing we've added are the "X-level spells" or "chain spells" mentioned in the title.  These spells are simple: you can memorize the spell in any level of spell slot, and the spell level becomes the value "X" mentioned in the spell itself (hence the name).  This has allowed us to come up with a bunch of spells without needing to have separate entries for Summon Monster I, Summon Monster II, and so on.For instance, let's say there was a D&D spell like this:cure wounds: heals Xd8 + (caster level, max of 5*X)Memorized in a level 1 slot, it's identical to cure light wounds.  In a level 2 slot, it's cure moderate wounds, and so on.(This one isn't actually one of ours, it's just a D&Dish example I'm using.  Our healing X-spell converts damage from Physical to Subdual, and once there's no Physical left it then starts removing Subdual.)Obviously, these were partially inspired by the psionic augmentable spells, especially astral construct.  We've come up with a few dozen of these, although some are just mirror images of each other (each element has a basic attack "bolt" X-spell, fire bolt, ice bolt, stone bolt, concussion, etc., a Control spell, a defensive buff, an offensive buff, etc.).  In a way, they're like Domains, but not quite as flexible; compare cure wounds to the Healing domain; thile the low-level ones are the same, there's no question that mass heal would be better than this at that level.  Some aren't quite so straightforward; the planar jump X-spell can mimic dimension door, teleport, teleport circle, or plane shift depending on which options you pick.Now to the real issue.We've got a spellcaster class that has a limited number of known spells, but uses a slot-based casting system with a little spontaneous ability (basically, think Cleric).  We wanted him to get a small number of these.  In exchange, he sacrifices one known spell of each non-cantrip spell level (9 spells, overall), but his spellcasting stat gives bonus KNOWN spells, not spells per day.  So, most of those other known spells will go to one-of-a-kind utility spells, while these X-spells will give the essentials.But lately, we've had a debate as to the exact value of these.  The question is, how many chain spells would balance the sacrifice of those 9 known spells?  While each can be memorized in nine levels, they're not nine times as valuable as a single spell.  But they're clearly more valuable than a single known spell.  I had been using a roughly 4:1 ratio (meaning two balance it), but like I said, there's been some debate, so I'd like a second opinion.</blockquote>

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