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<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 7375190" data-attributes="member: 6683613">Have you noticed how I've been speaking specifically of male children and male relatives this whole time? It's not because I've been a sexist jerk. It's because the Romans were sexist jerks and had different naming conventions for men and women. And for the purpose of this conversation, we've been looking at the men's convention, because that's the one where the clan/family distinction I've been trying to show you appears. You can't draw conclusions about one ruleset by looking at a dramatically different ruleset.Now, I repeat: all of the dictator's patrilineal male relatives had the name Caesar. Your claim that only the legitimate male heir got it is incorrect. It identifies a genetically related group of men: brothers, fathers, sons, uncles, cousins. All of these men were expected to receive the name by convention. It makes a lot more sense to call this a &quot;family name&quot;, since it identifies a family, than a &quot;personal name&quot;, since it does not identify a person. And this family identified by the name was distinct from, albeit a subunit of, the clan that is identified by the name Julius. Hence, family names are not the same as clan names. Quod erat demonstrandum.Nobody familiar with the Latin language or Roman culture would expect this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 7375190, member: 6683613"] Have you noticed how I've been speaking specifically of male children and male relatives this whole time? It's not because I've been a sexist jerk. It's because the Romans were sexist jerks and had different naming conventions for men and women. And for the purpose of this conversation, we've been looking at the men's convention, because that's the one where the clan/family distinction I've been trying to show you appears. You can't draw conclusions about one ruleset by looking at a dramatically different ruleset. Now, I repeat: all of the dictator's patrilineal male relatives had the name Caesar. Your claim that only the legitimate male heir got it is incorrect. It identifies a genetically related group of men: brothers, fathers, sons, uncles, cousins. All of these men were expected to receive the name by convention. It makes a lot more sense to call this a "family name", since it identifies a family, than a "personal name", since it does not identify a person. And this family identified by the name was distinct from, albeit a subunit of, the clan that is identified by the name Julius. Hence, family names are not the same as clan names.[I] Quod erat demonstrandum[/I]. Nobody familiar with the Latin language or Roman culture would expect this. [/QUOTE]

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