Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Xanathar's Guide errata coming
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7954687" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>You're right, I don't look at a spell in a vacuum. I look at spells in comparison to other spells because spells are ranked by spell level and class has nothing to do with it. I would point out that an argument in a vacuum white room trumps the lack of any evidence to the contrary that occurs in gameplay that you provided. Claiming it's a vacuum does not prove any point you might be trying to convince me of.</p><p></p><p>This is a fact: Out of combat in it's current version allows healing spirit to give 10d6 hp in healing to every member of the party. In a party of 3 that's 105 hp. In a party of 4 that's 140 hp. In a party of 5 that's 175 hp. That's in a 2nd level spell slot. Aura of healing, in a higher level slot, gives 70 hp to the party out of combat per casting. A 2nd level spell should never be better than a 3rd level spell when they both have the same function. That's unbalanced. Please prove otherwise.</p><p></p><p>Further, healing spirit costs a bonus action to cast and no further actions to maintain. Aura of healing costs an action to cast, and therefore an attack, and a bonus action to maintain. On top of that, aura of healing is restricted to one PC per round instead of on each turn in combat when it matters, and healing spring using the same slot heals the same 2d6 on top of all the other benefits it has over the higher level spell. </p><p></p><p>Healing word and cure wounds are not efficient healing at all.</p><p></p><p>Prayer of healing used to be the good out of combat healing spell. By your reasoning adding healing spirit was a buff to druids and rangers, and therefore a nerf to clerics and paladins. Fixing healing spirit cannot be a nerf when it's correcting a nerf. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Prayer of healing is the same spell level as healing spirit. Healing spirit takes a bonus action to cast, no action to maintain, can be used in combat, and heals more hit point damage out of combat. Out of combat healing spirit has healed more hit points than prayer of healing can 9 minutes before prayer of healing goes off. There's nothing but disadvantage for prayer of healing in comparison.</p><p></p><p>Mass cure wounds, a 5th level spell, requires an action to cast and heals 6 creatures 18.5 hp on average. That's 111 hp total, which is more than prayer of healing or aura of vitality (which makes sense), but less than the same number of creatures using a second level slot for healing spirit does. In combat, healing spirit in the same slot is 14 per target in the first round and doubled to 28 per target in the second round. For a bonus action spell. Second level spells should also not be out performing 5th level spells in the same slot.</p><p></p><p>That's not a vacuum. That's how the spells work in play and based on how spells are ranked. In combat there is at least a movement requirement but out of combat the spell was clearly ridiculous. A cap on the number of uses has nothing to do with nerfing or buffing any class. It's fixing something in the spell that needed fixing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7954687, member: 6750235"] You're right, I don't look at a spell in a vacuum. I look at spells in comparison to other spells because spells are ranked by spell level and class has nothing to do with it. I would point out that an argument in a vacuum white room trumps the lack of any evidence to the contrary that occurs in gameplay that you provided. Claiming it's a vacuum does not prove any point you might be trying to convince me of. This is a fact: Out of combat in it's current version allows healing spirit to give 10d6 hp in healing to every member of the party. In a party of 3 that's 105 hp. In a party of 4 that's 140 hp. In a party of 5 that's 175 hp. That's in a 2nd level spell slot. Aura of healing, in a higher level slot, gives 70 hp to the party out of combat per casting. A 2nd level spell should never be better than a 3rd level spell when they both have the same function. That's unbalanced. Please prove otherwise. Further, healing spirit costs a bonus action to cast and no further actions to maintain. Aura of healing costs an action to cast, and therefore an attack, and a bonus action to maintain. On top of that, aura of healing is restricted to one PC per round instead of on each turn in combat when it matters, and healing spring using the same slot heals the same 2d6 on top of all the other benefits it has over the higher level spell. Healing word and cure wounds are not efficient healing at all. Prayer of healing used to be the good out of combat healing spell. By your reasoning adding healing spirit was a buff to druids and rangers, and therefore a nerf to clerics and paladins. Fixing healing spirit cannot be a nerf when it's correcting a nerf. ;) Prayer of healing is the same spell level as healing spirit. Healing spirit takes a bonus action to cast, no action to maintain, can be used in combat, and heals more hit point damage out of combat. Out of combat healing spirit has healed more hit points than prayer of healing can 9 minutes before prayer of healing goes off. There's nothing but disadvantage for prayer of healing in comparison. Mass cure wounds, a 5th level spell, requires an action to cast and heals 6 creatures 18.5 hp on average. That's 111 hp total, which is more than prayer of healing or aura of vitality (which makes sense), but less than the same number of creatures using a second level slot for healing spirit does. In combat, healing spirit in the same slot is 14 per target in the first round and doubled to 28 per target in the second round. For a bonus action spell. Second level spells should also not be out performing 5th level spells in the same slot. That's not a vacuum. That's how the spells work in play and based on how spells are ranked. In combat there is at least a movement requirement but out of combat the spell was clearly ridiculous. A cap on the number of uses has nothing to do with nerfing or buffing any class. It's fixing something in the spell that needed fixing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Xanathar's Guide errata coming
Top