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Xanathar's Guide: How does identifying a spell + Counterspell work?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 7292303" data-attributes="member: 6776887"><p>I finally just went with allowing anybody to recognize a spell they have seen before. So new spells can catch creatures by surprise once. Anyone can use a reaction to identify a new spell, and those who have <em>counterspell</em> can use it as part of the reaction.</p><p></p><p>I have a similar issue to what @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6777737" target="_blank">Bacon Bits</a></u></strong></em> brought up in one of the feats I am putting together for <em>War of the Burning Sky</em>:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This allows a spell duelist to fake out enemies. Going up against a Mage Slayer, they could pretend to cast a defensive spell, get hit, and then actually cast the spell so they do not have to worry about losing concentration. They can get someone to waste a <em>counterspell</em> or use their prepared action.</p><p></p><p>The difficulty has been figuring out how to have things out in the open at the table without allowing the bait and switch that @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6777737" target="_blank">Bacon Bits</a></u></strong></em> described beyond what the Spellduelist should be able to do. These are the scenarios I have considered when a Spellduelist pretends to cast a spell as a bonus action:</p><p>1. Pretend to cast a spell.</p><p>2. If no one reacts, you can actually cast the spell quickly, before anyone has a chance to react.</p><p>3. If creatures react because you faked them out, they burn their reaction early. Attacks of opportunity and readied actions are used. The spell slot for <em>counterspell</em> is not used, but the reaction is. The spellduelist can then cast the faked spell or a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.</p><p>4. Any creatures who were willing to risk losing/using their reaction at the "wrong" time but figure out the deception do not have to use their reaction. These are the only creatures who are then able to use their reaction when the Spellduelist actually casts a spell that turn.</p><p></p><p>I think this works because everything is out in the open and the risk is distributed among the players and the DM regardless of who controls the Spellduelist. What I cannot figure out is how to take this kind of scenario to the identifying / <em>counterspell</em> scenario that Xanathar's Guide is setting up. How do you lock in what spell you are going to cast so that the bait and switch does not happen?</p><p></p><p>I suppose the player / DM could write the spell being cast on a piece of paper. That is annoying, but I think it would work to lock in the spellcaster.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tormyr, post: 7292303, member: 6776887"] I finally just went with allowing anybody to recognize a spell they have seen before. So new spells can catch creatures by surprise once. Anyone can use a reaction to identify a new spell, and those who have [I]counterspell[/I] can use it as part of the reaction. I have a similar issue to what @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6777737"]Bacon Bits[/URL][/U][/B][/I] brought up in one of the feats I am putting together for [I]War of the Burning Sky[/I]: This allows a spell duelist to fake out enemies. Going up against a Mage Slayer, they could pretend to cast a defensive spell, get hit, and then actually cast the spell so they do not have to worry about losing concentration. They can get someone to waste a [I]counterspell[/I] or use their prepared action. The difficulty has been figuring out how to have things out in the open at the table without allowing the bait and switch that @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6777737"]Bacon Bits[/URL][/U][/B][/I] described beyond what the Spellduelist should be able to do. These are the scenarios I have considered when a Spellduelist pretends to cast a spell as a bonus action: 1. Pretend to cast a spell. 2. If no one reacts, you can actually cast the spell quickly, before anyone has a chance to react. 3. If creatures react because you faked them out, they burn their reaction early. Attacks of opportunity and readied actions are used. The spell slot for [I]counterspell[/I] is not used, but the reaction is. The spellduelist can then cast the faked spell or a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. 4. Any creatures who were willing to risk losing/using their reaction at the "wrong" time but figure out the deception do not have to use their reaction. These are the only creatures who are then able to use their reaction when the Spellduelist actually casts a spell that turn. I think this works because everything is out in the open and the risk is distributed among the players and the DM regardless of who controls the Spellduelist. What I cannot figure out is how to take this kind of scenario to the identifying / [I]counterspell[/I] scenario that Xanathar's Guide is setting up. How do you lock in what spell you are going to cast so that the bait and switch does not happen? I suppose the player / DM could write the spell being cast on a piece of paper. That is annoying, but I think it would work to lock in the spellcaster. [/QUOTE]
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