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<blockquote data-quote="Cyrinishad" data-source="post: 7298871" data-attributes="member: 6808925">On point #1, you are certainly correct about the &quot;At higher levels&quot; phrasing of spells... But, like I said, I simply don't have any cheating non-sense at my table... cheaters are going to cheat, no matter what the rules are... don't play games with cheaters.On point #2, I simply don't buy into this analogy. My conception of telepathic communication is clearly different, in that it is instant communication, speed of thought, as if your mind is simply communicating with itself, not a secondary individual that needs verbally recite their thoughts to a blind man... so, no blindfolds, and no additional mental processing time, your familiars reaction &amp; your reaction are essentially simultaneous... and since the spell identification game is an all or nothing game, where you catch the stick doesn't matter, just that you catch it...I do agree that there would be a measurable difference in reaction time to a secondary source versus a primary source, but it would require a more granular tactical simulation than D&amp;D. We're talking about a very abstract 6-second combat round in which all of the movements and actions of an individual are fully resolved before the next individual in sequence fully resolves all of their movements and actions, etc... Given that context, both scenarios of the analogy you presented would occur in less than 6-seconds, so by D&amp;D standards both would be equally effective.So, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.On point #3, I never claimed that it was easy for all familiars to identify a spells, just that it is possible... I'll take a 10% chance to identify a spell over a 0% chance any day. Also, since we are discussing a scenario in which &quot;variant/optional&quot; rules are being used... If the DM is utilizing the &quot;optional&quot; spell identification rule presented in XGTE, it would be reasonable for the DM utilize all of the &quot;variant&quot; familiars as well... The Pseudodragon and the Imp both have average intelligence, bringing your chances up to 25% to identify a DC 15 Intelligence check.I appreciate your encouragement for me to re-evaluate my assessment of the rules... and I stand by my original assertions.We've got good rules, and we should use them...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cyrinishad, post: 7298871, member: 6808925"] On point #1, you are certainly correct about the "At higher levels" phrasing of spells... But, like I said, I simply don't have any cheating non-sense at my table... cheaters are going to cheat, no matter what the rules are... don't play games with cheaters. On point #2, I simply don't buy into this analogy. My conception of telepathic communication is clearly different, in that it is instant communication, speed of thought, as if your mind is simply communicating with itself, not a secondary individual that needs verbally recite their thoughts to a blind man... so, no blindfolds, and no additional mental processing time, your familiars reaction & your reaction are essentially simultaneous... and since the spell identification game is an all or nothing game, where you catch the stick doesn't matter, just that you catch it... I do agree that there would be a measurable difference in reaction time to a secondary source versus a primary source, but it would require a more granular tactical simulation than D&D. We're talking about a [I]very[/I] abstract 6-second combat round in which all of the movements and actions of an individual are fully resolved before the next individual in sequence fully resolves all of their movements and actions, etc... Given that context, both scenarios of the analogy you presented would occur in less than 6-seconds, so by D&D standards both would be equally effective. So, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. On point #3, I never claimed that it was easy for all familiars to identify a spells, just that it [I]is[/I] possible... I'll take a 10% chance to identify a spell over a 0% chance any day. Also, since we are discussing a scenario in which "variant/optional" rules are being used... If the DM is utilizing the "optional" spell identification rule presented in XGTE, it would be reasonable for the DM utilize all of the "variant" familiars as well... The Pseudodragon and the Imp both have average intelligence, bringing your chances up to 25% to identify a DC 15 Intelligence check. I appreciate your encouragement for me to re-evaluate my assessment of the rules... and I stand by my original assertions. We've got good rules, and we should use them... [/QUOTE]

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