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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8840424" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Fair point, though if the DM is operating in good faith and sticks to the rules the game system itself determines a lot of that. In 1e, each monster has an xp value; each gold piece carries an xp, and so on; in more recent editions, each encounter carries an xp value with it; and if the DM sticks to those xp values there's little if any fiat involved.</p><p></p><p>Where fiat comes in when using such systems is with extras like "mission bonus" xp and xp for things that don't necessarily count as an "encounter" but are worthy of reward anyway. Here the trick is just to be as fair as you can with it.</p><p></p><p>The other trick is to view xp solely as a reward for what the <strong>character</strong> does, not the player. IME that really helps take bias out of it.</p><p></p><p>Cool if you're the only player or character in the game (as per your Myth example; but potentially messy when there's multiple players/characters each with their own personal goals that may or may not agree with each other or those of the overall party.</p><p></p><p>Still doesn't help.</p><p></p><p>If I tweak your Myth example and make my character's personal goal "Get through this adventure without taking any damage", the game is now rewarding me for hanging back and letting others take the hits.</p><p></p><p>And if this brings about a situation where the DM has to (or probably should) reject certain personal goals then all this does is breed arguments.</p><p></p><p>Ideally, if one or both of the overarching story or the day-to-day ongoing in-play events are engaging enough in and of themselves then the players won't be bored, regardless of level.</p><p></p><p>Also, it would be very easy to misinterpret player frustration with not feeling quite powerful enough (which is a good thing) as boredom with a level.</p><p></p><p>The main thing I want to incentivize with xp is getting on with it and taking some risks. Doesn't always work perfectly, but it's better than nothing, and helps discourage passenger characters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8840424, member: 29398"] Fair point, though if the DM is operating in good faith and sticks to the rules the game system itself determines a lot of that. In 1e, each monster has an xp value; each gold piece carries an xp, and so on; in more recent editions, each encounter carries an xp value with it; and if the DM sticks to those xp values there's little if any fiat involved. Where fiat comes in when using such systems is with extras like "mission bonus" xp and xp for things that don't necessarily count as an "encounter" but are worthy of reward anyway. Here the trick is just to be as fair as you can with it. The other trick is to view xp solely as a reward for what the [B]character[/B] does, not the player. IME that really helps take bias out of it. Cool if you're the only player or character in the game (as per your Myth example; but potentially messy when there's multiple players/characters each with their own personal goals that may or may not agree with each other or those of the overall party. Still doesn't help. If I tweak your Myth example and make my character's personal goal "Get through this adventure without taking any damage", the game is now rewarding me for hanging back and letting others take the hits. And if this brings about a situation where the DM has to (or probably should) reject certain personal goals then all this does is breed arguments. Ideally, if one or both of the overarching story or the day-to-day ongoing in-play events are engaging enough in and of themselves then the players won't be bored, regardless of level. Also, it would be very easy to misinterpret player frustration with not feeling quite powerful enough (which is a good thing) as boredom with a level. The main thing I want to incentivize with xp is getting on with it and taking some risks. Doesn't always work perfectly, but it's better than nothing, and helps discourage passenger characters. [/QUOTE]
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