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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 3817559" data-attributes="member: 29252">There's no comparison between forcing someone in the party to play a particular role and coming up with ways to let everyone play the character they wish without compromising the party.If you HAVE a good trapfinder, by all means - let the player make use of the class ability.  It works better overall.  If you don't, that's okay - there's ways around it, it's just more expensive (much like not having a heal-bot Cleric; a wand of Cure Light and one of: Rogue with UMD, Paladin, Ranger, Bard, or Druid will cover it outside of combat).  The wand of Unseen Servant is reasonably likely to spring twenty or more traps; that's going to run you two or three levels pretty easily.  By that time, you've more than recouped the expense, unless your DM is rather stingy; much like the Wand of Cure Light wounds you use to recover HP after a battle.Yeah - with the wand, you buy bus fare time and time again.  The Rogue takes a share of the treasure forever.  Which costs more, long-term?Traps are usually placed at choke points, or on containers.  Magic lets the creator be immune to the trap, but otherwise, sane people just don't put active traps in their living quarters; there's too much risk of it going off when it's not supposed to do so.  Magic traps will be located by the Wizard with Detect Magic/arcane sight, except where the DM has included a non-standard upgrade to counter the tactic.  With containers, you have the unseen servant open them, while you stand back.  Trap goes off, killing the unseen servant - but generally, the unseen servant will have still opened the thing.  Alternately, use a Knock spell to open it up - either way, the goal is to be out of the target zone of the trap when it goes off.  Yeah, the BBEG may have two Symbols in his throne room that will go off when you step inside... but then, the BBEG is liable to be there anyway, not letting the rogue search for them.I imagine about the same thing they're doing when you get into a loud fight for three rounds, or "fort up" to take a nap.  Twiddling their thumbs while they're not being thought about.  It's unrealistic that you could raid an organized dungeon - at the first encounter, someone is going to shout for backup (or scream in pain - little difference from a practical perspective if there's some form of mutual defense pact going on).  If you like, we can have the Cleric cast Silence from a collaberated scroll or wand so that there's no noise involved.  There's a reason I listed 2700 hp, rather than the 900 book value for a 10x10x5 block of unworked stone; I'm assuming the Fighter will need to tunnel far enough to actually go around the trap, to get to get back on "the path" on the other side of the trap, rather than through it.  You're still going in the trapped direction, you're just taking a detour to avoid the trap itself.Without the build-up, it is not safe to say that they've got roughly the same chance to miss a trap; that would be putting forth an unsupported hypothesis, which occasionally attracts people who like to point it out.  The point of the build-up was to say that they have extremely comparable miss-chances, without much fear of contradiction.  Yes, but 3rd is just about the minimum level for pulling it off.  It costs essentially the same per trap found at 3rd as it does at 20th.  Besides - it's a party resource, much like a wand of Cure Light Wounds; you get a portion of the cash from each party member (and it's usually fairly easy to get people to donate an even share - "okay, do you want to take point, then?").  If you've got a more traditional trapfinder, by all means - let the player fill the role; there's no need to steal another player's thunder.  This is just another way to make it happen if nobody is playing a proper trapfinder in the party, without forcing someone into a particular role.</blockquote>

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