D&D 5E XP Progression in Lost Mine of Phandelver [SPOLIERS!]

[Nikosandros]

I'm currently running a party composed by the five pre-gens through the adventure and after 4 sessions they have accumulated 1290 XP each. They have cleared the Cragmaw Hideout and the Redbrand one. They also eliminated the orcs at Wyvern Thor, got the information from Agatha in Conyberry and interacted peacefully with the necromancer at the Old Owl Well.

They are now going to Cragmaw Castle. If they succeed there, they'll have the map to Wave Echo Cave and I fully expect them to go there next. However, it seems to me that at the end of Cragmaw Castle they will be well short of 4th level. Even if they went to Thundertree first, all the encounters there wouldn't be enough unless they at least chase off the dragon (an extremely dangerous feat). Thoughts?

 

[Klaus]

I'm currently running a party composed by the five pre-gens through the adventure and after 4 sessions they have accumulated 1290 XP each. They have cleared the Cragmaw Hideout and the Redbrand one. They also eliminated the orcs at Wyvern Thor, got the information from Agatha in Conyberry and interacted peacefully with the necromancer at the Old Owl Well.

They are now going to Cragmaw Castle. If they succeed there, they'll have the map to Wave Echo Cave and I fully expect them to go there next. However, it seems to me that at the end of Cragmaw Castle they will be well short of 4th level. Even if they went to Thundertree first, all the encounters there wouldn't be enough unless they at least chase off the dragon (an extremely dangerous feat). Thoughts?

Just level them up to 4th, for completing a story milestone, when they complete Cragmaw Castle.

 

[Reynard]

Just level them up to 4th, for completing a story milestone, when they complete Cragmaw Castle.

If you are going to do this, why have an XP system in place at all?

 

[Klaus]

If you are going to do this, why have an XP system in place at all?

Rewarding story goals and roleplaying with XP *is* a part of the XP system (4e had Major and Minor Quests, 2e had Class-specific XP rewards, 1e had XP-for-gold, etc). Grinding through monsters just to fill out a XP quota can lead to a boring slog.

Plus, the OP said that the players would be close enough to 4th level, and would be able to hit it if they don't bypass Thundertree. It's better to nudge the XP a little (justifying it as a story milestone) than to railroad them to what is essentially a side trek unrelated to the main plot.

 

[Reynard]

Rewarding story goals and roleplaying with XP *is* a part of the XP system (4e had Major and Minor Quests, 2e had Class-specific XP rewards, 1e had XP-for-gold, etc). Grinding through monsters just to fill out a XP quota can lead to a boring slog.

Plus, the OP said that the players would be close enough to 4th level, and would be able to hit it if they don't bypass Thundertree. It's better to nudge the XP a little (justifying it as a story milestone) than to railroad them to what is essentially a side trek unrelated to the main plot.

I don't think there is anything wrong with XP for reaching story goals or whatever, I just think they should be baked in. That is, my question would be more thoroughly asked as thus, "Why go to the effort of creating an XP reward structure if, in the end, you are going to ignore it in favor of fiat based level advancement?"

Now, that said, I also prefer systems with a relatively shallow power curve -- and 5E seems to be one of those -- so if the PCs either move on to a portion of the adventure they are not "ready" for, or stumble upon an encounter that isn't "level appropriate" all is not lost. In addition, tracking XP with some degree of transparent granularity grants the players some agency in that they can decide whether to hunt down more "eeps and geeps" before tackling Area X or facing Monster Y.

 

[Uller]

When running an adventure path, it is sometimes best to not use an XP system and instead just reward with levels at appropriate milestones. XP systems are best for sandbox style play.

If you are going to use XP, rewarding XP for story mile stones is important. This should be an significant portion of the XP rewarded. I generally reward an easy encounter worth of XP for minor story points and a hard encounter for major ones. A typical adventuring session should comprise of at least one milestone award. IIRC, in 1e this was handled with gold=XP. In 2e it was handled with individual class rewards (which was a pain). It's easier just say "for rescuing the royal family, you each earn 1000 XP and since you did it without killing any innocents you get another 250 XP" or some such. The DM is in control of this reward and can therefore use it to control the rate of level advancement to suit his needs (at least theoretically...in practice it isn't always easy).

For me...one level every 3-4 sessions seems to work pretty well.

 

[Klaus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with XP for reaching story goals or whatever, I just think they should be baked in. That is, my question would be more thoroughly asked as thus, "Why go to the effort of creating an XP reward structure if, in the end, you are going to ignore it in favor of fiat based level advancement?"

Now, that said, I also prefer systems with a relatively shallow power curve -- and 5E seems to be one of those -- so if the PCs either move on to a portion of the adventure they are not "ready" for, or stumble upon an encounter that isn't "level appropriate" all is not lost. In addition, tracking XP with some degree of transparent granularity grants the players some agency in that they can decide whether to hunt down more "eeps and geeps" before tackling Area X or facing Monster Y.

I agree on the shallower power curve. If the DM allows the PCs to level up during the foray into Wave Echo Cave, I don't think it's particularly necessary to advance them to 4th. But I like my group's advancements to happen between sessions, instead of having to sit down and level up in the middle of a session, so in this case I'd prefer to just handwave the extra XP.

 

[Reynard]

Generally speaking, I think XP rewards should focus on what it is you expect and/or want your players to do. If you give XP for treasure in the old school style, for example, you are asking them to scour the place for everything of value and bring a crowbar. If you give XP primarily for killing monsters, the chances that they will kill everything that walks is much higher. If you give XP for completing quests or hitting story milestones, then they will focus on that. All this with habits from years of playing notwithstanding -- sometimes you get players who can't get out of a kill-n-loot mindset even when they are playing super heroes.

My preference in D&D is usually to give XP rewards for overcoming challenges (monsters, traps, obstructionist NPCs) and then provide a 10% bonus for good role-playing. If I am running an exploration heavy game, either in a mega-dungeon or a sandbox, I also give rewards for finding new locations. Sometimes, if I want PCs that are very proactive, I will also give rewards for completing quests in an almost CRPG style (I know, I'm a terrible person).

Long story short, I offer XP for the things I want my players to do, let them know what those things are, and then let them decide how much they want to chase XP.

 

[Kinak]

Long story short, I offer XP for the things I want my players to do, let them know what those things are, and then let them decide how much they want to chase XP.

Exactly. Reward the behavior you want to see. Want them to advance the plot? Story-based XP. Want roleplaying? Give the group RP rewards (not individual rewards, that's a mess). Want them to kill all the things? Monster XP.

As [MENTION=413]Uller[/MENTION] mentioned, Adventure paths are very good for leveling up (or handing out XP) at milestones.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Tormyr]

I have been running the Age of Worms adventure path converted to 5e since April. At first, the XP leveling worked in conjunction with the story. Now that they are level 4 in the middle of chapter two, that has fallen apart. They are supposed to reach level 5 by the end of chapter 2, but there is no way they will acquire almost 4000xp each in a few more sessions. So rather than keep track of it, we will move to milestone levelling. This will make planning out the encounters easier, because I will know what level they will be in the middle of chapters, and most chapters cover two levels.