XP: Shouldn't the whole be more than the sum of its parts?

[Three_Haligonians]

Forgive me if it has been discussed elsewhere but:

A party of 5 1st lvl characters meets a lvl 1 monster; they gain 100 XP
Later on, they meet another and then after that, another and then a few more times until they have gained 500 XP.

Next day, they fight 5 1st lvl monsters all together; they gain 500 XP.

Shouldn't they have gotten more for the big fight (or less for the small ones)?
I mean, shouldn't that large encounter be harder since they have to deal with 5 combatants simultaneously? The enemies can flank, cover each other, and use other tactics while the characters have to split their focus.

To say nothing of the fact that the first example lets the characters use encounter powers 5 times instead of once and gives 2 milestones for extra action point usage etc.

What have I missed?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[chitzk0i]

Forgive me if it has been discussed elsewhere but:

A party of 5 1st lvl characters meets a lvl 1 monster; they gain 100 XP
Later on, they meet another and then after that, another and then a few more times until they have gained 500 XP.

Next day, they fight 5 1st lvl monsters all together; they gain 500 XP.

Shouldn't they have gotten more for the big fight (or less for the small ones)?
I mean, shouldn't that large encounter be harder since they have to deal with 5 combatants simultaneously? The enemies can flank, cover each other, and use other tactics while the characters have to split their focus.

To say nothing of the fact that the first example lets the characters use encounter powers 5 times instead of once and gives 2 milestones for extra action point usage etc.

What have I missed?

J from Three Haligonians

WotC probably just wanted a dirt simple way to calculate XP. They tried a system that would account for all that in 3e and I guess they decided it was too complicated.

 

[frankthedm]

A party of 5 1st lvl characters meets a lvl 1 monster; they gain 100 XP

I say no way, maybe 1/2 or a 1/4 of the XP value for such an easy encounter

What have I missed?

The Notation in the DMG for withholding milestones for trivial encounters. Also 3E DMG mentions about reducing XP for really easy encounter.

You’re well within your rights to tell the players thatan encounter doesn’t count toward a milestone. An encounter that’s two or more levels lower than the characters is really easy, and it shouldn’t contribute toward a milestone.

Likewise, if the characters overcome an encounter that’s really hard, you can count it as two encounters, so they reach a milestone right away.

 

[fba827]

I think the aim here was simplicity.

The only factor here that you have not necessarily taken in to account is quest rewards (both minor and major). Often (though, agreed, not always) the "big fights" are the climax for a minor or major quest. Therefore they end up getting a minor or major quest reward shortly after a "big fight" as well - thus making the big fights be "part of" the path to get a bigger xp reward.

 

[Kordeth]

What have I missed?

You've missed the fact that a single level 1 monster is not in any way, shape or form a challenge for five 5th level PCs (for that matter, neither is a single non-solo 5th-level monster), and therefore a) should never be put into the game in the first place and b) wouldn't grant any XP at all if it was, as discussed on page 120 of the DMG under "overcoming an encounter."

 

[Caliban]

You've missed the fact that a single level 1 monster is not in any way, shape or form a challenge for five 5th level PCs (for that matter, neither is a single non-solo 5th-level monster), and therefore a) should never be put into the game in the first place and b) wouldn't grant any XP at all if it was, as discussed on page 120 of the DMG under "overcoming an encounter."

Who is talking about 5th level PC's?

 

[Kordeth]

Who is talking about 5th level PC's?

You're right, I somehow misread "a party of 5 1st-level PCs" as "a party of 5th level PCs."

The point still stands though. One 1st-level non-solo monster is not a challenge for 5 1st-level PCs, therefore you don't get XP or progress toward a milestone.

 

[James McMurray]

the point still stands though. One 1st-level non-solo monster is not a challenge for 5 1st-level pcs, therefore you don't get xp or progress toward a milestone.

qft

 

[Lamoni]

The point still stands though. One 1st-level non-solo monster is not a challenge for 5 1st-level PCs,

I just wanted to emphasize this as being one of the most important things to consider as strategy in larger encounters. If you can isolate one or two enemies for even a couple rounds, then the encounter can go from being difficult to easy. If you have a way to do this repeatedly, an impossibly difficult encounter can turn into an easy one.

Getting back on topic, I think that full XP should be awarded all the time, but I would definately hold back milestones. If a DM repeatedly set up encounters with individual foes I would start to get upset as a player, and I wouldn't want to be punished as a player for my DM's poor planning. In the OP's example, I would hate to waste the time on 5 encounters against easy single foes. If the DM then said that we also didn't get any experience for anything we did that session I would be tempted to elect a new DM.

 

[Lamoni]

What have I missed?

You missed the fact that the DM controls the encounters, not the PC's. This isn't a flaw that the PC's can exploit for extra XP at no cost to them. All you have to do as a DM is set up appropriate encounters and the problem goes away.