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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ilgatto" data-source="post: 9799186" data-attributes="member: 86051">Ah, yes, NPC parties, or, to quote DMG, p. 21: “Men are the worst monsters”.Challenge-wise, the xp values of NPC parties can definitely seem to be on the low side. But I’d say that is more a matter of “feel” and how each DM wants to award his PCs, for the xp values of each won't differ that much from those of monsters of similar hit dice if one would strictly stick to the EXPERIENCE POINTS VALUE FOR MONSTERS table in DMG, p. 85 (henceforth “XPV table”).I’ve had to generate quite a few randomly generated NPC parties in the last couple of years, which has made me decide to use a number of basic rules.First, I allocate xp values for “what could have been”—i.e., potential—rather than for what actually happened. This means that defeating the assassin before he has had a chance to assassinate one of the PCs with his poisoned dagger gets the party xp for “dealing with a threat that could have killed them” and bravo for that. I suppose this is rather in line with a red dragon's xp value simply including its breath weapon.Second, in much the same way, I do not make a distinction between “spell use” and “use of minor (basically defensive) spells” for NPC spell casters. I roll for what spells the magic-user and iillusionist have in their spell books and then roll for the spells all NPC spell casters have memorized for that day. While that means that a magic-user can have magic missile and fireball in his spell book but only learned mending and water breathing in their stead that day, it still means that the PCs have dealt with one who “could have done them some serious harm if the dice hadn't spoiled things”. Also, I want to be on the safe side in case an encounter leads to multiple confrontations.As to the extremely rare case that an NPC has psionics, I typically go for an EAXPA. But that is me not really understanding how psionics work and otherwise handling them differently for reasons.Third, I do award xp for the PCs acquiring magic items, as I suppose is suggested in the rather splendid example of Gygaxiana under “EXPERIENCE VALUE OF TREASURE TAKEN” on p. 85 in the DMG. Also, you’d be surprised at the low number of magic items NPC parties have if one sticks to the tables on p. 176 in the DMG (and at the number of serpentine owls in existence). Also, this has the added advantage of NPC parties actually being worth a lot more than their xp values alone.Fourth, I also use (a version of) the party levels vs monster levels calculation suggested by “ADJUSTMENT AND DIVISION OF EXPERIENCE POINTS” on p. 84 in the DMG. This means less xp for 6th-level PCs hacking their way through a 1st-level NPC party, and more xp for 1st-level PCs vs 6th-level NPCs.Fifth, I treat multi-classes and dual classes as “the highest level among them, plus the class abilities granted by each”.***Sixth, I base NPC xp values on the “Treat (…) all levels as the n+1 category” rule.So, in the examples as you gave them:The specialized 6th-level fighter (225 + 8/hp; 125/175) would get a BXPV of 225, plus 1×EAXPA if the girdle and/or sword would mean that he can deal “maximum damage greater than 24 singly”, for a possible grand total of 400 + 8/hp.Because experience has made me house-rule that fighters cannot hack their way through a tavern filled with commoners at a rate per round equal to their level, this also applies to this fighter being able to do the same to any men-at-arms accompanying the PCs, wherefore he doesn’t get an SAXPB for being able to attack four or more times per round. It’s a rule that dates back to ancient times, but I still like it so I’m not gonna change it.Oh, and I don’t really know what you mean by “specialized”, but there you go. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The 5th-level cleric/magic-user (150 + 6/hp; 75/125) would get a BXPV of 150, plus 1×EAXPA for “spell use”, plus 1×SAXPB for being resistant to sleep and charm spells because he is either a half-elf or an elf, plus 1×EAXPA if one of the blast wands would allow him to inflict “maximum damage greater than 24 singly”, for a possible grand total of 475 + 6/hp.Also, if he is an elf, he would (arguably) get an SAXPB for having Intelligence 13+ (MM, p. 39), plus another SAXPB once I’ve figured out whether “surprise on” and/or being able to remain unseen is actually a special attack—or a special defense for that matter.If he is a half-elf, the Monster Manual is vague on whether he is as intelligent as an elf, so I guess intelligence has to be rolled for.The 7th-level assassin (375 + 10/hp; 175/275) would get a BXPV of 375, plus 1×EAXPA for assassination (“instant death without regard for hit points”), plus 1×SAXPB for missile discharge, plus 1×EAXPA for the poison, for a grand total of 1100 + 10/hp.I’d say the backstab×3 doesn’t really come into play for the massive damage count. That is, unless you’d read “sword” (PHB, p. 27) as “any sword”, and would therefore allow him to backstab with a two-handed sword, in which case he would get another EAXPA for being able to inflict “maximum damage greater than 24 singly”.As per the cleric/magic-user above, the jury is still out on whether being able to remain unseen/surprise is worth any xp.Oh, and I see what u did there with your slippers of spider-climb. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🐒" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f412.png" title="Monkey    :monkey:" data-shortname=":monkey:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />The 6th-level illusionist (225 + 8/hp; 125/175) would get a BXPV of 225, plus 1×SAXPB for “high intelligence which actually affects combat”, plus 1×EAXPA for “spell use”, plus 1×EAXPA for psionics, for a grand total of 700 + 8/hp.The 4th-level thief (90 + 5/hp; 40/75) would get a BXPV of 90, plus… nothing, for a grand total of 90 + 5/hp.Again, I have not awarded xp for being able to remain unseen/surprise, as per the notes above.Note to self: Do not mention that thieves with daggers can have an astonishing number of attacks “per round” in surprise situations, not to mention those with darts.Obviously, these values would increase for any of them having AC 0 or better, high intelligence (or, say, strength in the case of the assassin above), missile discharge, and so on.And then, after the party have dealt with these folks in some way or other, I’d award xp for any magic items they have acquired in the process.Having said all of this, I have come to realize that doing this Appendix E experiment is gonna mean that I’m gonna have to revise my way of dealing with magic items. For, while the XPV table doesn’t list them as being worth any xp, I have now noticed that Appendix E does list them in some cases (e.g., Orcus, Asmodeus, Dispater, Geryon, bone devil, erinyes, horned devil, satyr, and, arguably, the sprite).So why does it do that, other than for reasons of obnoxiousness? I suppose there can only be one explanation, which would be that these items generate effects worth either an SAXPB or an EAXPA—and most likely the latter.***) I had a very specific reason for that, which I seem to have forgotten. So I’d be really interested to know where I can find the rule that says that a multi-classed character adds another +1 to its base xp value per additional class.</blockquote>

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