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Message: <blockquote data-quote="reiella" data-source="post: 1489246" data-attributes="member: 160">The DC scaling part is .. a bit awkward, however, as mentioned, it is not an 8th level power (for "attack purposes" it may well be), and would get splattered by Globes in the default setting as was mentioned earlier.  Makes it awkward (and I kinda wish there were scaling caps ... like wizards/sorcs have).Add in PP bonus from stats (Int Mod 9, Manifester Level 20 ~= 90).  Divide by 17 (adding items to balance equation for a class is a bad idea, for a reason I'll say later ).  Would it be fair to compare against a wizard specialist?  Given that the psion is a "forced specialist" [consider, psions simply have a larger universal school, but must give up 5 other schools in order to specialize].Wizard @ 20 + 28 Int:Lvl 20 : 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4+Int   : 0/3/2/2/2/2/1/1/1/1+Spec: 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1Total  : 5/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6/6So about 24 powers > 6th, and against a psion plopping for what amounts to a 17th level effective caster level [17 PP/power] comes out to roughly 25 (and a half!) powers [ Note: this puts the damage output for powers the psion manifests at 17d6 usually.  The situation gets muddied a bit more when you consider @ 20th due to potential DC hikes to 'save as if it were a 10th level power' ].  Further, the Wizard in question at this point, has at least a spell that will always outdamage the psion(whose not overchanneling) [Meteor Swarm damage can only be achieved at 24th, and then I'm not sure which of the power chains is No Save + No Roll to Hit].  So in effect, I'd contend that the difference is 1 [or 3 with the Torc] and generally dealing more damage.  However, the psions would be "harder to resist".If you shuffle it to ML 20. It's 22 [or 23 with torc] in order to deal the equivilant 20d6 of damage.  However, then you have the headache of dealing with possible 10th level effective power stuffies.Consider the effects a Ring of Wizardry II might have for a Wizard.  For the purposes of determining "effective higher level attacks", it's a bit worthless, but I hardly think that it's a fair assessment to give to the ring either.  In a pure power point comparison, the Wizard ends up a bit 'better off' than the Psion, and the Torc shows it's best benefit now in 'Suped Up Powers' but multitudes of small power usages.  While I may concede that the torc is 'too good of an item', it also comes only in the amulet slot now (a Good Thing).  Which means it's competing with the Psionatrix, the Amulet of Health, Amulet of Natural Armor, and Peripat of Wisdom [ie, I don't see a Psy Warrior using it, unless it's meshed into another item].  I have a hard time seeing a Psion not using it though.  More or less, the Torc is too much of a headache to determine the optimal application <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.Oh another comment about the psionatrixes. look at Psionic Endowment before getting "too grumbly" at them.  The psionatrixes seem more akin to the 3.5 spell focus than the psionic endowment feat :x.Anycase, I think the Power Point Issue isn't too unbalanced at the Top of the scale (ie, upper level spells versus manifested powers).  The problem, if any, would occur when you start looking at powers that don't need to be augmented or used at "best" in order to be effective.  The psion also doesn't "need" metapsi as much as the wizard may need metamagic; but then again the wizard is alot better at item crafting than the psion <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.</blockquote>

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