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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ph0rk" data-source="post: 1503190" data-attributes="member: 16266">Now who is getting snarky?  I've played both long enough to get 9th level spells, if that ain't long enough you can keep your damn discussion.Like this: Sorcerors are generally weaker than Wizards except when serving as a living breathing howitzer.  -------how the hell does it even matter when clerics and druids own them all anyway?but, just for the sake of comedy; how would you construct a Psion that had access to dominate, suggestion, energy ball, and teleport circle?  Some of the best psion powers are on the discipline lists, and you only get access to one of those.  If one were to burn all their feats, they could have (unable to use starting feats; you can only buy powers one level weaker than those you can manifest) you could have a max of 10 nonlist powers;  6 of which must be 5th level or lower.  And that precludes any metapsionic feats save the ones selected at character creation.What if you wanted even more powers that weren't on your list?  A wizard can do all these things, and for someone who just took the high road about who has played what character type for how long you seem to forget that spontaneous casts vs prepared spells doesn't hurt nearly so bad as the levels get higher.  In almost -all- cases if the party screws up bad enough that the Wizard Sorceror or Psion has to expend -all- spellcasting ablility, they've got some other issues than caster balance.The wizard wins the prep fight.The Sorceror has more total spells known vs/powers.  Don't agree? How many powers 6th and higher does a level 20 psion get? 15. mind, thats at crunchiest  3 6th, 3 7th, 3 8th, 6 9th.Assuming for one moment that total number of high level spells/powers known is the ultimate measure of power; there is no -large- discrepancy until 19th level; and even then in most cases a Psion would not end up with 6 9th level powers; the ones on the general list aren't that great and bear in mind they only have 30 powers 1-8. (the ones they selected by level 16)how many does a sorceror have at level 16? 35.  35 spells.  Yes, many of them are 0-level.  I used 0-level spells all the time when I played wizards and sorcerors. Sometimes for flavor, sometimes for mechanics.  Detect magic is pretty damn important; read magic can be as well.  Mage hand/Far hand is one of my personal favourites, and so on.  For a Psion these cost as much as a 1-level spell.Are you interested in discussing balance or collecting testimonials from people who agree with you?   IMHO, the psion is well balanced with the core classes.  If you do not agree, what would you change?</blockquote>

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