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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 1505021" data-attributes="member: 957">But the psions ALSO give up scaling of effectiveness per power (or spell) slot level.That is still a very big deal.  A 3rd level slot (5 pp) NEVER gets any better for a psion.Use the wizard as a base.  The sorcerer and the psion each give up soemthing to gain on the fly casting.  The sorcerer gives up all the extras as you describe.  The psion gives up scaling.  I'd rather give up the extras than scaling.  Augmentation is VERY different than scaling because scaling is free.  Now, the psions gain other perks that you previously covered.  Those make up for the lose of scaling being so weak.An 18 Chr 10th level sorcerer can throw sixteen 10d fireballs per day.An 18 Int 10th level psion can throw ten 10d+10 fireballs per day.And the psion will be down to 8 pp.The sorcerer will have 6 cantrips, 7 first and 7 second level spells left.So that is better than a 60% increase in efficiency for the sorcerer.PLUS the sorcerer in this example has chosen to "waste" his 4th and 5th level slots on 3rd level spells.  He could potentially do better with higher level spells.  The psion is working at peak efficiency, using basically all of his juice on effective level 5.5 powers.But the psion gains bonus feats, metal "casting", etc, and these things easily make up for that disadvantage.Like I said, I've only been through it for a short time and only had one real gaming session so far.  In 6 months I may think it goes a bit to far.  OTOH, I may think it doesn't go far enough.  But on early review, and considering the somewhat subjective nature of some of the contrasts, I think it works "good enough" for players to have fun either way.I agree that sorcerers work fine.  A touch boring at times, but mechanically fine.I have just shown that sorcerers are worth more apples than psions.I am certain that you can just as easily show that psions are worth more oranges.That would be a good thing.Just don't try to make to much straight up comparison between psion and sorcerer just because neither of them prepare spells.  It is not prepared vs. spontaneous.  It is prepared vs sponatneous vs power points.  And PP vs. spontaneous is just as big a difference as either is against prepared.  Thanks.  It is my wife's character that she has played since right after the first psi book came out.  I actually house-ruled it quite a bit at that time because I thought (and still do) that the original psion sucked.  Eventually my house rules were dumped when ITCK and mindscapes came out because I liked those and adapted to using them straight.As far as the centaur thing, eh, I never let the rules get in the way of a good game.  You'll note that I did not give her any centaur HD or LA.  She was already like level 9 or 10 when the change occured.  She already had more HP than a centaur, so I just assumed that they were "built-in".  And as a psion, most of the perks of the centaur were reduced.  The other players agree that her character is no stronger overall than any other, so we just go with it.</blockquote>

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