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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kyamsil" data-source="post: 1596673" data-attributes="member: 2534">I agree in that magic and psionics just can't be compared well. The fact is, a spell automatically scales with caster level, while if you want a power to scale with manifester level you must use augmentation. That means that some people, like Scion, consider that the extra power points in the manifestation of that power is the same as improving the level of the power by 1 for each 2 points invested, which in some cases (Astral Construct) is a good assumption. But in damage dealing powers, the line is not that clear. If you don't allow powers to be augmented to make use of the extra manifester level you must compare them at the minimum caster level/manifester level. If you allow the spell to be compared at the spell cap caster level and don't allow the power to be augmented, then the power is obviously always worse. In the other end, if you allow the power to be augmented up to a number of power points equal to the caster level at the spell cap, in most cases powers will have the upper hand.A way of actually comparing them allowing for augmentation and being fair with both systems is to use the Spell Points variant from Unearthed Arcana. In that alternative system magic works as psionics, spells that deal damage always deal the minimum damage according to minimum caster level for a spell of their level. If you want to do more damage with them you have to invest extra spell points. The cost of spells in this system is like the psionics from 3.0.We all agree in that the spell that is closer to Energy Missile is Scorching Ray. As Scorching Ray can only deal fire damage, then let's suppose that is the energy selected for Energy Missile.Then, let's compare them at the minimum caster level (3) and then again at the maximum caster level (11).Scorching Ray at 3rd level: Range 30', one ray inflicts 4d6(fire), ranged touch to hit, no save.Energy Missile(fire) at 3rd level: Range 130', up to 5 targets within 15' of each other suffer 3d6+3(fire), no ranged touch to hit, Reflex save at 12+Int modifier for half damage.We can see that, Scorching Ray has a miss-chance because of the ranged touch requirement (that is effectively like a save "negates"). Has 100' less range, can deal more maximum damage (24 vs. 21) but has less minimum damage (4 vs. 6). Energy Missile has the advantage of being able to deal its damage to up to 5 targets, but is subject to Evasion. All that means that Energy Missile seems better by far at 3rd level. Now, let's boost both to have 11 power points/11 spell points for a caster/manifester level of 11.Scorching Ray at 11th level: Range 50', 3 rays deal 4d6(fire) each at separate targets or the same target, ranged touch to hit, no save.Energy Missile(fire) at 11th level: Range 210', up to 5 targets within 15' of each other suffer 11d6+11(fire), no ranged touch to hit, Reflex save at 20+Int modifier for half damage.So, using the same amount of power/spell points, Scorching Ray has 160' less range, can deal 4d6(fire) to 3 separate targets (with miss chances because of ranged touch) or up to 12d6(fire) to only one target. Meanwhile, Energy Missile(fire) deals 11d6+11 to up to 5 targets, forcing a save DC that is higher than average by far. Uhm... I think we have a winner.Now, the power and spell have been judged using the same mechanic thanks to UA Spell Point system to avoid any further discussion on the difficulty of comparing spells to powers. Energy Missile has been proved to be better, by far to a similar spell of the same level, both at the minimum and at the maximum for the spell. And that is without taking into account that you are not limited to use fire but have 3 other energy types to select "on the fly" without having archmage Mastery of Elements or Energy Substitution feats and so on.Scion, if you continue saying that this power is not too powerful for its level after this you must be blind <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Also, you are "house ruling" the power since the beginning, because it was intended that it could target items, so having 5 targets is really easy, but only useful with sonic energy.</blockquote>

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