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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1596805" data-attributes="member: 5777">While I have no idea what the ua point system is, I would have to say that since with this comparison you are comparing a single 2nd level spell to a highly augmented psionic power (that costs way more than your spell) that the comparison has just failed.For being at 11th level you have given the scorching ray 'nothing' and are comparing it against something you have given an incredible boost in pp.What boost does scorching ray get in the ua system? So far it looks like none.In the system you are useing the spells lose their autoscaling and you have to pay for it. I am not interested in comparing such a system, as I would have to know all of the factors to see what the other balancing factors are.At this point it looks like the ua system is horribly weak. So comparing something that is needing of comparison to something that is horribly weak just isnt useful.Also, in your first comparison you failed to take into account that the rays can crit. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> but that isnt a huge deal really.All of this is also assuming something very fundamental: That arcane damage dealing, as is in the core, is strong enough. My experience shows exactly the opposite. So, when my comparisons show that the arcane matches up very nicely, with the psionic type pulling ahead here and there, then it is perfectly fine.This means, of course, that I am willing to see the psionic type come out slightly ahead and not be worried. The fact that sometimes the arcane version is still ahead should simply prove the point that it is fine.Again though, comparing Spell level X to power level Y just isnt useful.I know you are trying to prove something here, but I dont think you have succeeded. Some alternate magic from a noncore book seems to have a point system that is not very good (of course, I know nothing about it beyond what you have said here).Even doing the metamagic comparison, which also proves nothing useful, goes something like this:Scorching Ray, empowered: (4d6*1.5) for up to three rays.Energy missile, augmented: 7d6+mod for up to 5 targets, save dc 16+modFor a single target? Scorching ray is much better. Dealing somewhere around 42 for 2 rays and 63 for 3 rays. (some might miss, some might crit)Energy missile does an average of 24.5+mod to each target, but can be saved against to cut that in half.So, for some situations (the ones that it really matters) scorching ray is better. Against single bbeg it is a powerhouse of damage. Against many smaller targets it is better.Of course then there is fireball. (between 5d6 and 10d6 damage, dc 13+mod).For one level less it does between 17.5 and 35 points of damage to, potentially, many more targets. Even ones you didnt even know where there.But then, again, even with these comparisons the psionic comes out ahead sometimes, and other times the arcane comes out ahead. Each is good in its own situation. Since this is the case, obviously, then it follows that it is fine as is. Again and again this is true.Even if you can prove that 100% of the time though the psionic version is better you would still have to prove that this is a bad thing. You will have to prove that the amount of damage it deals is overpowered for the game as a whole.It could very well be that arcane damage dealing capability simply isnt good enough for 3rd edition. Or, it could be that the specialist kineticist should be better at dealing damage.If you can prove all of that then be my guest, but so far all that has been shown is that sometimes psionic is better, and sometimes arcane is better. That is hardly damning evidence.Your comparison is useing some system that is apparently somewhat flawed. It appears to be 'weaker' than the normal magic system. Of course I only know what you have posted here about it, but comparing psionics to an obviously weaker system of magic, and then saying, 'see! it is too powerful!' just isnt helpful to core d&d. Maybe it would matter for the ua system, or maybe the makers of it would toss it out in favor of useing psionics instead.The house rule though is necissary. Objects are generally immune to being effected, although even scorching ray can be used to fry just about any item you want. It is simply too easy with energy missile as written. With the houserule I used this power has no problems at all.Just about perfect in fact <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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