Yeah, but how does well does it work in the field?

[Quinn]

In all of the discussions that I've seen on game balance, whether it be about magic items like the vorpal weapon, spells such as Haste and Harm, or Prestige Classes ("OMG, the Order of the Bow Init./Deepwood Sniper/Cleric combo is SOOO broken"), the discussion ends up becoming a jumble of statistics and "what if situations". Oddly enough, a lot of issues just never rear their heads when I'm actually DMing or playing the game.

What supposedly unbalanced game mechanics have you run across that end up not really being such the bogeyman they were cracked up to be when the dice and the character sheets are on the table?

Or, what supposedly well-balanced mechanics end up being never-ending sources of headaches?

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Or, what supposedly well-balanced mechanics end up being never-ending sources of headaches?

3E.

[/joke]

 

[Cedric]

Well...I've played 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition...

I've never seen Harm used in a game, and I never thought Hold Person was broken.

Keep in mind, Hold Person used to affect 3 targets and was still just a 2nd level spell and the hold time was longer, 4 rounds +1 round/level.

Was it powerful? Sure it was a good spell. Was it too powerful? I've never considered it to be unbalancing.

As a GM, if I am using one "bad guy" it'll be mostly immune or have a good save. If I'm using lots of "bad guys" I'll have so many they'll need to hope that Hold Person works so they can kill the rest of them.

Cedric

 

[Victim]

I don't know whether haste is broken or not. It's useful all around, and necessary at high levels. However, since everyone has it, it's not that great of a concern. My wizard has been using haste and hasn't been out of line even compared to non-hasted guys.

Harm is definitely broken. My character toasted a purple worm in one round. There also aren't any reliable countermeasures against it. The effects of haste are largely migitated by using haste yourself or with Slow. But only SR can stop harm. I usually call no first use on Harm.

In my experience, archery did lots of damage, even when compared to a fighter rogue against very low AC creatures. In other group, the archer is again the best damage dealer - which is good, because no one else can do much damage. It's also very easy to buff archers.

Deepwood Sniper+Hunter's Mercy should not be combined, unless the DM is a munchkin.

Cleric power seems to diminish proportionally to the number of other characters, if the cleric does the healing+buffing thing. But the group's power increases substancially.

 

[Cedric]

Haste allowing two spells to be cast in a round was however....broken.

Cedric

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Haste allowing two spells to be cast in a round was however....broken.

Cedric

Then so's Quicken Spell. Myself, I wish they hadn't nerfed Haste for the new revision. It was the only good way to match a Sorcerer against a Wizard with Quicken Spell.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Then so's Quicken Spell. Myself, I wish they hadn't nerfed Haste for the new revision. It was the only good way to match a Sorcerer against a Wizard with Quicken Spell.

I wouldn't say so, by merit of the high Spell Slot cost; It has a relative cost to the Spellcaster per casting, taking up higher level slots for a lower level spell. Haste, on the other hand, turned the Spellcaster into an arsenal for X number of rounds for the casting of 1 Spell. There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

 

[Quinn]

Haste was my big bugaboo as a DM. The party's sorcerer was dealing out several fireballs, lightning bolts, and magic missiles a round. Good saves or not, they did their toll. I was also using quite a bit of Prot. from Elements and similar spells just to keep things challenging, but I was feeling like I was bending over backwards to do so. As levels advanced, it became more of a problem, but for a different reason. Since what was good for the goose was good for the gander, I had more and more enemy spellcasters used Haste as well. Then I noticed that it became more of a matter of which spellcaster won initative first. Probably more than any other spell, Haste was the most obvious problem area.

 

[Angcuru]

What's REALLY scary is when wizards and sorcerers get to epic levels. by level 27 they can take 3 shots of Auto Quicken Spell and be able to cast 2 spells OF ANY LEVEL per round, minimum. That's just not right!!

 

[Nifft]

I like my Haste House Rule.

1) You can cast a MAXIMUM of one normal spell and one Quickened spell per round.

2) You can use a spell-trigger item AT MOST once per round.

3) Using a spell-completion item counts as casting a normal spell.

Then, Haste away. You can cast a spell AND use a wand during a round, but you can't cast two spells or use a wand twice. You can use two wands, but then you'll have to drop one to cast a spell.

Finally, the Archmage PrC has a High Arcana which lets you cast one extra normal OR Quickened spell per round (you pick which when you get the High Arcana).

-- Nifft