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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 2880476" data-attributes="member: 30001">Yea, to the degree that the gods fear Yeenoghu, and that the gods are CR 60, I have no case.&nbsp; I wasn't aware that they feared either Yeenoghu or Balors though.&nbsp; You're kind of losing me on the &quot;advanced&quot; Balor thing though.&nbsp; I never took the rules for advancing a monster as a mandate that such a creature must exist in a DnD campaign.&nbsp; Depending on your campaign, advanced creatures aren't necessarily the kind of creatures that just show up willy-nilly in a dungeon one day for no reason.&nbsp; Why aren't all advanced Balors demon lords?&nbsp; Did I miss something in the Monster Manual that says &quot;all creatures derived from the stats in this book have no lord-like status.&nbsp; A great wyrm red dragon is simply one of thousands of such creatures, existing in relative obscurity compared to it's CR 1000 master.&quot;&nbsp; Just because high CR creatures weren't given names/personalities in the Monster Manual doesn't mean they don't have them, or that there are an uncountable number of them.&nbsp; The Monster Manual is generic by design, but I don't think that meant that campaigns that use it's monsters should be.I think the same thing when someone says something like &quot;but Yeenoghu can't stomp down some faceless party of 20th level PCs!&quot;&nbsp; My question is, &quot;who the heck ever heard of a faceless 20th level adventuring party?!&quot; (insert 3rd edition power-up rant here)&nbsp; IMO you guys are underestimating the prestige of advanced Balors and 20th level heroes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 2880476, member: 30001"] Yea, to the degree that the gods fear Yeenoghu, and that the gods are CR 60, I have no case. I wasn't aware that they feared either Yeenoghu or Balors though. You're kind of losing me on the "advanced" Balor thing though. I never took the rules for advancing a monster as a mandate that such a creature must exist in a DnD campaign. Depending on your campaign, advanced creatures aren't necessarily the kind of creatures that just show up willy-nilly in a dungeon one day for no reason. Why aren't all advanced Balors demon lords? Did I miss something in the Monster Manual that says "all creatures derived from the stats in this book have no lord-like status. A great wyrm red dragon is simply one of thousands of such creatures, existing in relative obscurity compared to it's CR 1000 master." Just because high CR creatures weren't given names/personalities in the Monster Manual doesn't mean they don't have them, or that there are an uncountable number of them. The Monster Manual is generic by design, but I don't think that meant that campaigns that use it's monsters should be. I think the same thing when someone says something like "but Yeenoghu can't stomp down some faceless party of 20th level PCs!" My question is, "who the heck ever heard of a faceless 20th level adventuring party?!" (insert 3rd edition power-up rant here) IMO you guys are underestimating the prestige of advanced Balors and 20th level heroes. [/QUOTE]

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