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yes, this again: Fighters need more non-combat options
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7547072" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>This works for people who have an easy time making their concept with multiple mechanical frameworks. Other people just can't do it with any meaningful immersion, for whatever reason. Some of us can easily reflavor a warlock as an arcane archer, some people simply cannot. So, it depends on what the concept of the character is, and whether the player is one such player. </p><p></p><p>Nothing wrong with asking others for thoughts on how to fix things for such players. </p><p></p><p>But, I'm a wierdo. If I ran a forum, posts that amount to "your premise is bad and wrong" (which yours isn't, but the posts you and OP reference that they will likely receive as the thread goes on surely will be) would be against the rules. IMO, either engage meaningfully with the premise, or don't post in the thread. Again, I don't think you're doing that, I'm just jumping off your comments to address the inevitable such posts. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, I don't think that there is anything about OPs ideas so far that will disrupt the game in any way, so you're right that they should go ahead and do it in their game if they want. However, I don't think it will change the player's perception, since they aren't getting any better at interaction or exploration. More on that in my next reply below...</p><p></p><p>As an aside, I kinda wish that more of the Fighter's power balance lived in the subclass, if the base class is going to so generic. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The Warlock and Bard have class abilities that make them better at certain social and exploration activities than another character with just the skill. The fighter base class has no such abilities, and the PHB subclasses have, between them, a bonus tool proficiency (limited to artisan tools), and a boost to jumping and half proficiency with untrained physical attribute checks (which doesn't come online until level 7). The Bard has more skills, half proficiency on all untrained ability checks, and expertise. The Warlock has invocations that do all sorts of things for all pillars, and spells. One invocation gives them Persuasion and Deception. If they take pact of the tome, they get extra cantrips, and can pick up stuff like Prestidigitation and Minor Illusion and Message, and if they pick up pact of the chain, they can have a Sprite or Psuedodragon familiar that can help them in interaction and exploration just as much (if not more) as in combat. </p><p></p><p>Every class but fighter gets more than a couple skill proficiencies to help in the other 2 pillars. </p><p></p><p>Remarkable athlete isn't going to let you shine in anything but jumping over stuff. You won't be terrible at any physical tasks, which is fun, but you aren't going to be sneaking alongside a bard with expertise, or a warlock that can turn invisible by standing still, and you certainly won't be contributing to interaction in any way that stands out unless you spend feats on it. And it's not like Fighters just blow everyone else away in combat, either. They're good, but hardly so much better than other classes that it justifies not giving them anything to bring the spotlight on to them out of combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7547072, member: 6704184"] This works for people who have an easy time making their concept with multiple mechanical frameworks. Other people just can't do it with any meaningful immersion, for whatever reason. Some of us can easily reflavor a warlock as an arcane archer, some people simply cannot. So, it depends on what the concept of the character is, and whether the player is one such player. Nothing wrong with asking others for thoughts on how to fix things for such players. But, I'm a wierdo. If I ran a forum, posts that amount to "your premise is bad and wrong" (which yours isn't, but the posts you and OP reference that they will likely receive as the thread goes on surely will be) would be against the rules. IMO, either engage meaningfully with the premise, or don't post in the thread. Again, I don't think you're doing that, I'm just jumping off your comments to address the inevitable such posts. Anyway, I don't think that there is anything about OPs ideas so far that will disrupt the game in any way, so you're right that they should go ahead and do it in their game if they want. However, I don't think it will change the player's perception, since they aren't getting any better at interaction or exploration. More on that in my next reply below... As an aside, I kinda wish that more of the Fighter's power balance lived in the subclass, if the base class is going to so generic. The Warlock and Bard have class abilities that make them better at certain social and exploration activities than another character with just the skill. The fighter base class has no such abilities, and the PHB subclasses have, between them, a bonus tool proficiency (limited to artisan tools), and a boost to jumping and half proficiency with untrained physical attribute checks (which doesn't come online until level 7). The Bard has more skills, half proficiency on all untrained ability checks, and expertise. The Warlock has invocations that do all sorts of things for all pillars, and spells. One invocation gives them Persuasion and Deception. If they take pact of the tome, they get extra cantrips, and can pick up stuff like Prestidigitation and Minor Illusion and Message, and if they pick up pact of the chain, they can have a Sprite or Psuedodragon familiar that can help them in interaction and exploration just as much (if not more) as in combat. Every class but fighter gets more than a couple skill proficiencies to help in the other 2 pillars. Remarkable athlete isn't going to let you shine in anything but jumping over stuff. You won't be terrible at any physical tasks, which is fun, but you aren't going to be sneaking alongside a bard with expertise, or a warlock that can turn invisible by standing still, and you certainly won't be contributing to interaction in any way that stands out unless you spend feats on it. And it's not like Fighters just blow everyone else away in combat, either. They're good, but hardly so much better than other classes that it justifies not giving them anything to bring the spotlight on to them out of combat. [/QUOTE]
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yes, this again: Fighters need more non-combat options
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