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yes, this again: Fighters need more non-combat options
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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7549349" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>If you want the fighter to help the warlock at the task, then that's one thing, if the DM allows it. In real life, two people working together may be more likely to succeed (as long as one isn't grossly incompetent). That's not an argument for why the fighter should be the one doing the thing, instead of the warlock doing it, if only one gets to try.</p><p></p><p>I know that some DMs are more willing to let everyone make a check, and move forward if anyone gets a good roll, so the fighter would definitely be contributing in that case; but they wouldn't be contributing much more than the untrained wizard, who is only -3 on the check relative to the fighter. Other DMs are less inclined to let everyone make a check, because rolling 4d20 is going to get at least one high roll, regardless of modifiers; and in those cases, the fighter can't really justify acting in place of the warlock, assuming they actually want to succeed.</p><p>Any time you make a decision based on how things work in our world, as compared to how things work in their world, you are meta-gaming. Ideally, the rules of the game world should be close enough to the rules of our real world that the difference wouldn't be jarring; but that's not always the case.</p><p>It really depends on the situation at hand. I was imagining the henchperson being tied up, and somebody interrogating them after they wake up. In that case, everyone has time to sit down and collaborate on how to move forward. If you're in the middle of combat, or some other time-sensitive situation, then you may have to make-do with what you have.</p><p>If the fighter manages to save a few SP by haggling the innkeeper down, that doesn't seem particularly meaningful to me. To me, an action is meaningful if it has significant consequences, like if you convince the henchperson to reveal the location of the Big Bad's lair.</p><p></p><p>If an action is so trivial that you don't even care enough to let the better speaker make the attempt, then it's probably not very meaningful in a campaign sense.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7549349, member: 6775031"] If you want the fighter to help the warlock at the task, then that's one thing, if the DM allows it. In real life, two people working together may be more likely to succeed (as long as one isn't grossly incompetent). That's not an argument for why the fighter should be the one doing the thing, instead of the warlock doing it, if only one gets to try. I know that some DMs are more willing to let everyone make a check, and move forward if anyone gets a good roll, so the fighter would definitely be contributing in that case; but they wouldn't be contributing much more than the untrained wizard, who is only -3 on the check relative to the fighter. Other DMs are less inclined to let everyone make a check, because rolling 4d20 is going to get at least one high roll, regardless of modifiers; and in those cases, the fighter can't really justify acting in place of the warlock, assuming they actually want to succeed. Any time you make a decision based on how things work in our world, as compared to how things work in their world, you are meta-gaming. Ideally, the rules of the game world should be close enough to the rules of our real world that the difference wouldn't be jarring; but that's not always the case. It really depends on the situation at hand. I was imagining the henchperson being tied up, and somebody interrogating them after they wake up. In that case, everyone has time to sit down and collaborate on how to move forward. If you're in the middle of combat, or some other time-sensitive situation, then you may have to make-do with what you have. If the fighter manages to save a few SP by haggling the innkeeper down, that doesn't seem particularly meaningful to me. To me, an action is meaningful if it has significant consequences, like if you convince the henchperson to reveal the location of the Big Bad's lair. If an action is so trivial that you don't even care enough to let the better speaker make the attempt, then it's probably not very meaningful in a campaign sense. [/QUOTE]
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yes, this again: Fighters need more non-combat options
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