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Yet Another Arcane Trickster / Bladesinger Thread: The Concentration Problem
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7587981" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>I've got an Eladrin (DMG variant) Arcane Trickster 6/Bladesinger 5 who uses Shadow Blade + Booming Blade for offense (mixing in the occasional Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Web in place of Shadow Blade), Mirror Image + Bladesong + Shield/Absorb Elements/Uncanny Dodge for defense, and is an exploration expert and utility caster out of combat.</p><p></p><p><strong>My dilemma</strong></p><p></p><p>In a nutshell, my dilemma is this: How to I build from here to be able to take full advantage of magical ambush without undercutting my strikerness too much (since at the moment I'm dependent on shadow blade for damage)?</p><p></p><p><strong>Current Stats</strong></p><p></p><p>Eladrin (DMG variant) Arcane Trickster 6/Bladesinger 5</p><p></p><p>STR 8</p><p>DEX 18 (Elven Accuracy)</p><p>CON 14 (Resilient CON)</p><p>INT 19 (Headband of Intellect; naturally 16)</p><p>WIS 12</p><p>CHA 8</p><p></p><p>Expertise: Perception, Stealth, Investigation and Arcana</p><p></p><p><strong>Party Composition</strong></p><p></p><p>The front line is me, a glaive-wielding totem barbarian and a mace and shield devotion paladin. There's a tempest cleric in the middle, and in back your standard agonizing blast sorlock and your standard debuff/control lore bard.</p><p></p><p>The sorlock frequently hastes me and the barbarian, which is a beautiful thing, since it synergizes wonderfully with shadow blade. (I don't usually double up on sneak attacks by readying an action, since I like to keep my reaction free for defensive uses; and booming blade replaces much of the damage from a second sneak attack anyway, so I'll generally booming blade on my turn with my main action and just make another attack with shadow blade using my haste action)</p><p></p><p><strong>My Tentative Plan</strong></p><p></p><p>What I'm thinking about to get around the shadow blade dependence problem is to start investing in ranged combat, since situations where magical ambush is applicable are by definition situations where hiding is available, making staying back and sniping more viable. I also suck at ranges greater than 20' (throwing shadow blade) right now, since I have less sneak attack than a pure rogue, and get neither booming blade nor shadow blade damage past that. Most likely my endpoint is AT 12 / BS 8, so I've got four ASIs/feats to come (We may not make it all the way to 20, but at the moment we are intending to do so)</p><p></p><p>The standard ranged rogue path is to take crossbow expert first, then sharpshooter after maxing DEX, but... I'm actually considering taking sharpshooter first (probably level 13) then crossbow expert (at 16 or 17), and some pair of +2 DEX, Skulker, Lucky, Tough, War Caster at 18 and 20. I might not be thinking about this properly though, so would love the community's input. Here's my thought process.</p><p></p><p><strong>Milestone 1: AT 9 / BS 5 (Sharpshooter and Magical Ambush)</strong></p><p></p><p>I think I'm going to advance rogue all the way to 9 from here before picking up extra attack with Bladesinger 6. So at Rogue 8 I'd like to do something to improve my non-concentration-dependent offensive capability. That something should be useful for two levels with a single attack and often a second via Haste from the sorcerer. </p><p></p><p>At this stage I'm not after the power attack from sharpshooter, which is at best a wash vs a typical AC for the level in most circumstances (though with bardic inspiration it might be worth it). The initial draw is removing disadvantage at long range: even when trying to be in melee it will allow me to throw my shadow blade 60 ft (vs a dragon, say), or if I want to be concentrating on something else, I can still use bladesong and fire the hand crossbow a decent distance (at much reduced DPR compared to shadow blade, but it shouldn't be too hard for the value of the other spell to make up the difference).</p><p></p><p>Taking crossbow expert instead at this stage would yield somewhat better ranged DPR in most circumstances, but is only even with a rapier and booming blade with extra attack (and unlike the other options, eats my bonus action). And unlike sharpshooter, it doesn't really open up new situations (i.e., at longer range) to decent attacks. So it'd really only be useful when I'm too far for melee but still within 30 feet (overland distance won't generally be an issue after the first round between bladesong and cunning action dash; I'm more worried about the z axis).</p><p></p><p>In any case, any time dim light is available and range is not an issue, shadow blade will still be the go-to option, since even at a 3rd level slot the damage it provides is enormous (something like +30 average DPR after factoring in to-hit and to-crit chances).</p><p></p><p><strong>Milestone 2: AT 9 / BS 8 (Extra Attack, 4th level spells, Crossbow Expert)</strong></p><p></p><p>At levels 16 and 17 I'll get 4th level spells and another feat. If I've got a target restrained or I'm invisible I will have (super)advantage on all attacks. Opening up two more power attacks with the hand crossbow, frequently at trivantage, is, of course, massive, and pulls ahead of a 3rd level shadow blade that gets advantage on only the first attack. Shadow blade still reigns supreme in dim light, and ekes slightly ahead even without full turn advantage if using a 5th level slot, but that doesn't factor in the benefits of those other spells to defense or to allies', so (assuming a magic hand crossbow), it likely means largely retiring the shadow blade outside scenarios when those other spells would not be effective, using a hand crossbow for both melee and range as needed.</p><p></p><p><strong>End Game: AT 12 / BS 8 (probably)</strong></p><p></p><p>ASI/Feat considerations in this last tier include +2 DEX, Skulker, Lucky, War Caster, Tough. There's a little bit of anti-synergy with Skulker earlier in the build, since the hiding benefit is most useful in dim light, where I'm least likely to be staying at range. But that's less true in the end game since SS/XBE will make hand crossbow attacks competitive with shadow blade even in dim conditions.</p><p></p><p><strong>Alternative Considerations</strong></p><p></p><p>I could just suck up the fact that I'm no good at range any more, just max DEX at 13, maybe take Warcaster and Sentinel at 17 and 18 (nice albeit a bit cheesy synergy with the fear spell), and do the canonical melee rogue thing. But as I said, I'm hesitant to devote reactions to attacking since I have so many nice defensive uses for it, and it means I have a hole in my offense if I can't close for melee.<</p><p></p><p><strong>So... what do y'all think?</strong></p><p></p><p>Would you go this way, or is it too much feat investment for an M.O. I'll only be using sometimes? What would you tweak or reorder?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7587981, member: 6966824"] I've got an Eladrin (DMG variant) Arcane Trickster 6/Bladesinger 5 who uses Shadow Blade + Booming Blade for offense (mixing in the occasional Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Web in place of Shadow Blade), Mirror Image + Bladesong + Shield/Absorb Elements/Uncanny Dodge for defense, and is an exploration expert and utility caster out of combat. [B]My dilemma[/B] In a nutshell, my dilemma is this: How to I build from here to be able to take full advantage of magical ambush without undercutting my strikerness too much (since at the moment I'm dependent on shadow blade for damage)? [B]Current Stats[/B] Eladrin (DMG variant) Arcane Trickster 6/Bladesinger 5 STR 8 DEX 18 (Elven Accuracy) CON 14 (Resilient CON) INT 19 (Headband of Intellect; naturally 16) WIS 12 CHA 8 Expertise: Perception, Stealth, Investigation and Arcana [B]Party Composition[/B] The front line is me, a glaive-wielding totem barbarian and a mace and shield devotion paladin. There's a tempest cleric in the middle, and in back your standard agonizing blast sorlock and your standard debuff/control lore bard. The sorlock frequently hastes me and the barbarian, which is a beautiful thing, since it synergizes wonderfully with shadow blade. (I don't usually double up on sneak attacks by readying an action, since I like to keep my reaction free for defensive uses; and booming blade replaces much of the damage from a second sneak attack anyway, so I'll generally booming blade on my turn with my main action and just make another attack with shadow blade using my haste action) [B]My Tentative Plan[/B] What I'm thinking about to get around the shadow blade dependence problem is to start investing in ranged combat, since situations where magical ambush is applicable are by definition situations where hiding is available, making staying back and sniping more viable. I also suck at ranges greater than 20' (throwing shadow blade) right now, since I have less sneak attack than a pure rogue, and get neither booming blade nor shadow blade damage past that. Most likely my endpoint is AT 12 / BS 8, so I've got four ASIs/feats to come (We may not make it all the way to 20, but at the moment we are intending to do so) The standard ranged rogue path is to take crossbow expert first, then sharpshooter after maxing DEX, but... I'm actually considering taking sharpshooter first (probably level 13) then crossbow expert (at 16 or 17), and some pair of +2 DEX, Skulker, Lucky, Tough, War Caster at 18 and 20. I might not be thinking about this properly though, so would love the community's input. Here's my thought process. [B]Milestone 1: AT 9 / BS 5 (Sharpshooter and Magical Ambush)[/B] I think I'm going to advance rogue all the way to 9 from here before picking up extra attack with Bladesinger 6. So at Rogue 8 I'd like to do something to improve my non-concentration-dependent offensive capability. That something should be useful for two levels with a single attack and often a second via Haste from the sorcerer. At this stage I'm not after the power attack from sharpshooter, which is at best a wash vs a typical AC for the level in most circumstances (though with bardic inspiration it might be worth it). The initial draw is removing disadvantage at long range: even when trying to be in melee it will allow me to throw my shadow blade 60 ft (vs a dragon, say), or if I want to be concentrating on something else, I can still use bladesong and fire the hand crossbow a decent distance (at much reduced DPR compared to shadow blade, but it shouldn't be too hard for the value of the other spell to make up the difference). Taking crossbow expert instead at this stage would yield somewhat better ranged DPR in most circumstances, but is only even with a rapier and booming blade with extra attack (and unlike the other options, eats my bonus action). And unlike sharpshooter, it doesn't really open up new situations (i.e., at longer range) to decent attacks. So it'd really only be useful when I'm too far for melee but still within 30 feet (overland distance won't generally be an issue after the first round between bladesong and cunning action dash; I'm more worried about the z axis). In any case, any time dim light is available and range is not an issue, shadow blade will still be the go-to option, since even at a 3rd level slot the damage it provides is enormous (something like +30 average DPR after factoring in to-hit and to-crit chances). [B]Milestone 2: AT 9 / BS 8 (Extra Attack, 4th level spells, Crossbow Expert)[/B] At levels 16 and 17 I'll get 4th level spells and another feat. If I've got a target restrained or I'm invisible I will have (super)advantage on all attacks. Opening up two more power attacks with the hand crossbow, frequently at trivantage, is, of course, massive, and pulls ahead of a 3rd level shadow blade that gets advantage on only the first attack. Shadow blade still reigns supreme in dim light, and ekes slightly ahead even without full turn advantage if using a 5th level slot, but that doesn't factor in the benefits of those other spells to defense or to allies', so (assuming a magic hand crossbow), it likely means largely retiring the shadow blade outside scenarios when those other spells would not be effective, using a hand crossbow for both melee and range as needed. [B]End Game: AT 12 / BS 8 (probably)[/B] ASI/Feat considerations in this last tier include +2 DEX, Skulker, Lucky, War Caster, Tough. There's a little bit of anti-synergy with Skulker earlier in the build, since the hiding benefit is most useful in dim light, where I'm least likely to be staying at range. But that's less true in the end game since SS/XBE will make hand crossbow attacks competitive with shadow blade even in dim conditions. [B]Alternative Considerations[/B] I could just suck up the fact that I'm no good at range any more, just max DEX at 13, maybe take Warcaster and Sentinel at 17 and 18 (nice albeit a bit cheesy synergy with the fear spell), and do the canonical melee rogue thing. But as I said, I'm hesitant to devote reactions to attacking since I have so many nice defensive uses for it, and it means I have a hole in my offense if I can't close for melee.< [B]So... what do y'all think?[/B] Would you go this way, or is it too much feat investment for an M.O. I'll only be using sometimes? What would you tweak or reorder? [/QUOTE]
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