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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Endroren" data-source="post: 4240827" data-attributes="member: 5011">So, after reading past another comment that attacks my qualitifications to have an opinion, it sounds like your definition of a role-playing game is one with ongoing game play and advancement of characters rather than any rules that govern character interaction and the development of that character's personality.IF that is the case, then Hero Quest or Warhammer Quest or Blood Bowl all fit that description. Are they roleplaying games? Perhaps if one uses the description you've given, yes.I argue that a roleplaying game not only provides rules for the resolution of combat, but also provides a framework within which characters can interact socially with the world around them. This framework includes rules as rich as those provided for the combat system. The sort of examples that come to mind are reaction rolls for NPCs based on the roleplaying the PC does, haggling, PC disadvantages and personality quirks, and rich rules for social interactions such as seduction and intimidation.And yes, there are two line descriptions of skills that do some of these things in 4E, but they are given the same handwaving treatment as "history". Now Stealth? Perception? THESE skills get attention.Good roleplaying rules are part of what help to structure scenes where a very intelligent, good-looking human player is roleplaying an ugly, stupid, cruel half-orc OR the opposite, where a somewhat dull person is playing a Wizard who is a genius. In the same fashion that I would not rely on my real life ability to fight with a sword to govern my success in combat, neither should my failings in social, inellectual, or similar situations determine my success there.And while the roleplaying of the player is a vital part of this, the rules that support are what make it work within the context of the game.And let's not limit "roleplaying" to social interactions. How about my ability to cut down a tree and build a barrier on the fly? My options for purchasing a house in town? My choices for caving in a section of the tunnel?Show me these rules in 4E that support the sort of things I'm talking about and you will convince me that it isn't Hero Quest II. In the mean time, all I'm seeing in the "introduction to what the game is" are a bunch of miniature combat rules. What exactly am I supposed to think?</blockquote>

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