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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 3080807" data-attributes="member: 29252">Let's see if I have this straight.... under the "standard" system as you've proposed.....A Wizard-20 with a Charisma score of 10 will have, on average, 10+5.5*19=114.5 mana points.  He can cast a 9th level spell once at his full caster level (85 mana points, as the minimum caster level is 17; 82+3=85) and have 19.5 left over - enough for a 4th level spell at caster level 9, or a 3rd level spell at caster level 14, or a 2nd level spell at caster level 17, a 1st level spell at caster level 18, or a cantrip at caster level 19 (ditto for the Cleric-20 and Druid-20 at Charisma-10).  In order to be able to cast another 9th level spell, he needs to wait a little over four hours.The Sorcerer-20 with a Charisma score of 34 (base 18, +5 level up, +5 Tome, +6 Cloak - about the maximum before non-core player races) with his +12 Charisma modifier has an average of 12+6.5*19+20*12=375.5 mana points.  He can cast four 9th level spells in a row at caster level 20, and have (on average) 35.5 mana points left over - enough for a 5th level spell at caster level 18.  Of course, under such a system, no Wiz/Cleric/Druid is going to be without a Cloak of Charisma for overly long... and is probably putting a decent stat roll into it, and is probably picking up the +5 Tome as able.  Hmm.... definately a power-down for casters of most stripes.</blockquote>