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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 3081022" data-attributes="member: 29252">I DM for a 17th+ level party, and Detect Magic is still a staple spell.  Granted, under the vast majority of circumstances, caster level 1 is just fine...... but it's still a staple spell.  Prestidigitation, likewise, is great for the Wizard or Sorcerer who wants a cahracter a little finicky about personal appearence.  You mean like Grease, Charm Person, Mage Armor, or the like?Perhaps your Monk friend just lost his Bracers of Armor to a Disjunction.  Or the Cleric isn't in the touch range for a Freedom of Movement, and you need to give your fighter buddy a quick boost to his Grapple check to escape a grapple monster (he lost his Ring of Freedom of Movement, or didn't think he needed one).  Or maybe you just want this commoner-1 to let you past without raising a fuss, so you can visit the party-face rogue in the pokey. Sure, Freedom of Movement trumps Grease, Bracers of Armor trump Mage Armor, a +5 Mithral Buckler trumps a Shield spell, and Dominate Person trumps Charm Person... but occasionally there's an exceptionally low wealth campaign, or the Cleric isn't in reach, or equipment was just lost for one reason or another, or you have reason to want longer-term control that's harder to notice via Sense Motive, or one of your 1st level spells can be made to work but you weren't expecting the situation and don't have time to prepare the perfect spell that's currently sitting in your spellbook.  It depends quite a lot on the campaign.Just running a quick analysis, with expected impact.  A Wiz-20 can cast a cantrip twenty times an hour, forever - once every three minutes.  Or a 9th level spell about every four hours (and some change).  If you're trying to power-down casters a might, this is liable to do so.  Perhaps a might much, but it will do so.  If that is your goal, this house rule will succeed at that aspect.  It's an analysis; no judgement of "good" one way or another was intended with my first post to this thread, although it may have leaked through.At higher levels, that's true... but a Wizard getting max on his first die, and rolling thereafter (as HP, as you list) may find something interesting: Even with no Charisma bonus, A Wizard-1 can get off five color sprays at 1st level, all right in a row.  Sure, he's down for 10 hours after that, but he can likely dominate any 1st level encounter, a couple of times a day.  If he's an Illusion specialist, he can get 10 of them off.  With no rest at all.  The non-specialist replenishes one Color Spray in two hours down time.  The specialist can pop off a Color Spray ever hour for eternity.  The Evoker-1 gets to slap down Magic Missiles from 110 feet away all day, or Burning Hands everything in sight for 1d4 damage.  You've gotten rid of the massive casting at 20th.... but you may have set up something you didn't intend for levels 1-5.If you still let them sell for half market, and permit them to arrange down-time, they will all have Cloaks of Charisma (or Cloaks of Resistence with Charisma stacked on top, or migrated to another slot, or whatever, as permitted when Crafting) under that house rule.  A primary caster can't afford not to.</blockquote>

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