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<blockquote data-quote="Vegepygmy" data-source="post: 4722044" data-attributes="member: 40109">Neither of those penalties applies to shooting into a grapple.&nbsp;First, the grapplers are not &quot;in melee&quot; with each other.&nbsp; Two characters are engaged &quot;in melee&quot; if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other.&nbsp; (PHB, page 140.)&nbsp; You don't threaten any squares (not even your own) while grappling.&nbsp; (PHB, page 156.)&nbsp; Thus, since neither grappling character threatens the other, they are not &quot;in melee&quot; and there is no -4 for shooting at them.&nbsp;The cover issue is not as clear, but IMO it is covered by the &quot;randomly determine target&quot; rule.&nbsp; Whether your grappling opponent provides you any cover is determined by that roll; if he does, the consequence is that he gets hit instead of you.&nbsp; Obviously, if he's not getting hit instead of you, he's not providing you with any cover, is he?&nbsp; So it would be ridiculous to give you a cover bonus to AC when he isn't providing you with cover!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Vegepygmy, post: 4722044, member: 40109"] Neither of those penalties applies to shooting into a grapple. First, the grapplers are not "in melee" with each other. [COLOR=deepskyblue]Two characters are engaged "in melee" if they are enemies of each other and [u]either threatens the other[/u].[/COLOR] (PHB, page 140.) [COLOR=deepskyblue]You don't threaten any squares (not even your own) while grappling.[/COLOR] (PHB, page 156.) Thus, since neither grappling character threatens the other, they are not "in melee" and there is no -4 for shooting at them. The cover issue is not as clear, but IMO it is covered by the "randomly determine target" rule. Whether your grappling opponent provides you any cover is determined by [i]that[/i] roll; if he does, the consequence is that he gets hit instead of you. Obviously, if he's not getting hit instead of you, he's not providing you with any cover, is he? So it would be ridiculous to give you a cover bonus to AC when he isn't providing you with cover! [/QUOTE]

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