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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nillin" data-source="post: 4356268" data-attributes="member: 72223">Clarifying my suggestion: Stealthing in combat is a trained skill use only. (Will prevent everyone from trying all the time.) You can either use stealth as part of an attack in order to get CA... (If your stealth skill is higher than their perception skill, it is an automatic success. For those with bad stealth skill or versus enemies with good perception you have to make a check versus their passive perception.) ...OR you can hide and become untargetable. (You don't make a check unless it is needed later during the enemies turn.) You can only try one of the two each turn. Enemies that want's to find the untargetable stealther will use one minor action per Perception versus Stealth check, just like the rules state. Enemies can automatically see a stealther who used CA last turn, without spending a minor action (but the stealther still get his cover/concealment bonus to defenses). This last part is a deviation from RAW.   This means that there will only be stealth rolls in combat under these circumstances: 1. The stealther tries to gain CA against a relatively more competent observer. This will not happen in most fights. Remember that moving more than 2'' gives you a -5 on stealth skill for that turn. 2. The stealther choose to become untargetable instead of getting CA, and there actually is an enemy willing to spend a minor action or two to find him. This will happen in some fights, but far from every round. And when it does, it is usually rather important for the outcome of the battle. Will the wounded striker be found and finished off or will he stay down behind his cover? I would say on average there will not be more than a few stealth checks per ordinary battle. At the worst there will be maybe 2 CA attempts against extra perceptive opponents and maybe one or two attempts to find an untargetable stealther every round. But that should be the exception. Normal to hit checks will far outnumber the stealth v.s perception checks even under those circumstances. Neither getting CA or untargetable status requires a separate action. And even though you choose to become untargetable, you can still make an attack, just not with the CA bonus. The practiacal difference between the two actions is your priority. Are you trying to keep your head down and out of the way, and do not concern yourself with when and how you will hit your opponent, then you do the untargetable stealth action. On the other hand if you don't focus on keeping your head down, everyone will see where you are, but you can wait for the right moment and strike when the taget is distracted, turned away, covered by the tank or maybe you snipe unexpectedly from the other side of the pillar to keep him of guard a little. And you get your +2 CA. The enemy on the other hand, will see you automatically when you used stealth CA and can target you just fine, even though you might have a cover or concealment bonus to your defense.When you tried to become untargetable you are really trying to stay out of sight. In order to be able to target you, he will either use an area attack power, or move so you don't have cover any more, or he will use a minor action and try to get a good look at you. He is aware of you, he knows what square you are in most likely, unless you attacked and then stealthed away. And if he decides to use a minor action, he will make a perception test versus your active stealth. No need to roll before we really know that the result will be needed.</blockquote>

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