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<blockquote data-quote="Obreon" data-source="post: 7210659" data-attributes="member: 6815225">Yeah, I'm aware that it's never going to be perfect. I just want to try and make an incremental improvement against the default &quot;Roll Perception... you see a secret door&quot; without utterly devaluing all the mechanical options surrounding Perception. If this was easy there wouldn't be so many discussions about it!Agreed. I've spelled out all the DC stuff to make clear where I'd be pitching things, but effectively it's just a framework to help me as the DM approach a greater level of consistency in the detail I describe to players based on their characters' Perception abilities. I have no issue with the whole &quot;PP gives deterministic predictable results&quot; thing&nbsp; because a) I generally won't be giving *all* the information out based on a character's PP - just the initial hints and b) I think my players will appreciate the whole &quot;Seer Sharpeyes notices a strange puddle of water in the corner of the room&quot; thing just as much as if they'd had to roll a die for it. And yes, I do Stealth vs PP as well, although I don't roll much behind the screen because I generally try and leave the rolls until they have a directly perceptible outcome (&quot;4 Goblins jump out at you from nowhere!&quot;)True, but that's kind of the point - depending on where you draw the line on &quot;pixel bitching&quot;. Avoiding search mechanics that aren't in their favour by intelligent engagement with the environment as described? Great. What I was looking for. Explicitly searching every described item in every room in the hope that one of them hides something? I'm going to be charging you some 10 minute searches with accompanying WM checks for that. In the end this will come down to a judgement call on my part, but I'm hoping it shouldn't be too hard to do it in a way that feels fair and consistent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Obreon, post: 7210659, member: 6815225"] Yeah, I'm aware that it's never going to be perfect. I just want to try and make an incremental improvement against the default "Roll Perception... you see a secret door" without utterly devaluing all the mechanical options surrounding Perception. If this was easy there wouldn't be so many discussions about it! Agreed. I've spelled out all the DC stuff to make clear where I'd be pitching things, but effectively it's just a framework to help me as the DM approach a greater level of consistency in the detail I describe to players based on their characters' Perception abilities. I have no issue with the whole "PP gives deterministic predictable results" thing because a) I generally won't be giving *all* the information out based on a character's PP - just the initial hints and b) I think my players will appreciate the whole "Seer Sharpeyes notices a strange puddle of water in the corner of the room" thing just as much as if they'd had to roll a die for it. And yes, I do Stealth vs PP as well, although I don't roll much behind the screen because I generally try and leave the rolls until they have a directly perceptible outcome ("4 Goblins jump out at you from nowhere!") True, but that's kind of the point - depending on where you draw the line on "pixel bitching". Avoiding search mechanics that aren't in their favour by intelligent engagement with the environment as described? Great. What I was looking for. Explicitly searching every described item in every room in the hope that one of them hides something? I'm going to be charging you some 10 minute searches with accompanying WM checks for that. In the end this will come down to a judgement call on my part, but I'm hoping it shouldn't be too hard to do it in a way that feels fair and consistent. [/QUOTE]

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