Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Yet Another Variant: The Fighter...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3567214" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>Question: What happens then if someone grows up a peasant farmer, then gets conscripted into the military by his local Lord, and over time becomes a military regular, a professional soldier? Or when a rogue gives up his wicked ways and joins a respectable wizard's academy to put his wits to good use? Or when a middle-aged samurai retires to life in a monastery, practicing martial arts and scholarly pursuits? Or any other time when an individual changes his/her path in life and tries to pursue a different trade/whatever?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Another question: does Shield Proficiency in your campaign include tower shields? And if not, has the Tower Shield Proficiency feat been added to your Fighter's bonus feat list? Cuz if anyone should be able to learn to use a tower shield without having to waste one of their precious few normal feat slots, it would be Fighters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This needs clarification. Must they declare use at the time they learn their ally is stricken, or can it be after they learn how much damage their ally would have taken (and thus, whether or not it would've killed or KO'd the ally)? Your wording in the beginning and middle parts of the description are kinda contradictory and thus leave it uncertain.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would at least add a restriction that this War Talent does not stack with any other class' abilities by the same name. Ergo, if a Fighter multiclasses into Duelist later, they would use whichever Canny Defense ability granted the higher bonus, rather than stacking them.</p><p></p><p>Since you're using D20 Modern's class defense bonus, you should recognize the fact that getting to stack lots of AC bonuses together is a Bad Thing when several of those can be quite high (like your Fighter's class defense bonus). D20 Modern itself has far fewer sources of AC/Defense than D&D 3E does (even if using FX in the game, they have a smaller range of FX items and smaller bonuses on some stuff).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd limit this to 5 copies at maximum, or 3 copies like in D20 Modern. Regdar the upper-level human Fighter <em>probably shouldn't</em> be bending/snapping adamantine jail cell bars with his bare hands, however unlikely it is that anyone would find a lot of good uses for such inhuman Strength checks. Though, if you limit it to 3 copies, it might be balanced with a +3 bonus per copy instead of +2, given its limited usefulness most of the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Similarly, this should be limited to maybe 5 copies at maximum, or perhaps 3 copies. 10 copies would allow a Fighter to chop adamantine objects in half pretty easily, while 5 copies would still be a large boon to those who like to break things but wouldn't necessarily be too powerful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would make it an effective +3 Strength for carrying capacities instead of +2. Also, I think you need to note whether or not this affects pushing/pulling capacities. And again limit it to 5 copies, cuz it would be wierd for a high-level but low-strength (archery and weapon finesse oriented) Halfling Fighter to be lugging around dead ogres on his back.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Waaaaaay too good. Initiative can be quite important for multiclassed rogue-types and caster-types, as well as any kind of high-level character. Limit this to 3 copies at most, and add a prerequisite of, like, 4 Fighter levels per copy (so 4th-level minimum to gain 1 copy, 8th minimum to gain a 2nd copy, and 12th minimum to gain a 3rd copy). This is better than the Duelist prestige class' ability, and 10 copies for +20 Initiative would be scary, especially with Improved Initiative and good Dexterity. Heck, 5 copies with a multiclassed Fighter 9/Rogue 11 could be sick.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This ability essentially makes the other few save-increasing War Talents comparatively sucky and worthless for a while (and far less cost efficient). </p><p></p><p>This is effectively the same as giving them Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes all at once, except that it stacks with those feats and there are just a few things it won't apply against. Generally just some poisons (works against the Poison spell though), some diseases (works against the Contagion spell though), and Stunning Fist, plus maybe the occasional minor thing.</p><p></p><p>Reduce the bonus to +1.</p><p></p><p>You could add a separate, Greater Magicbane ability though, with prerequisites of Magicbane and Fighter level 11+ or something, that increases the bonus from Magicbane to +2.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure there's any way to make this balanced. So essentially it's like the Leadership feat, but stacks with that feat, and is much more vague, mentions no limits or possible difficulties in raising such a force, has no limits on how many such fighting forces he or she can gather and keep around, says nothing about what kind of a fighting force this is (warriors, fighters, whatever; 1st-level folks, 5th-level folks, a mix of stuff; same race, different races, same alignment, mixed alignments, same cause/affiliation, different causes/affiliations, allied lands, enemies' lands, etc.), and is basically just terribly vague and open to both rampant abuse and harsh adjudication.</p><p></p><p>I'm not even sure there's any reason for this ability to be there. Why not just add Leadership to the list of Fighter bonus feat options if you want them to be capable of gathering a force of allied warriors?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would raise the prerequisite to 9th-level Fighter or so. Depends a little bit on whether or not you change the description to also apply against effects that allow a Fortitude save to negate. If not, then it may be fine at 5th-level Fighter as a prerequisite.</p><p></p><p>See, Mettle, even when limited for some strange reason as your version is, is generally used to oppose save-or-die effects, save-or-be-taken-out-of-the-fight effects, and save-or-be-seriously-weakened effects.</p><p></p><p>Evasion is used to simply reduce damage (there is little if anything that Evasion applies against that is not either primarily or entirely damage-dealing). Damage is a much easier to deal with effect, and all kinds of other things can reduce or remove it. It's rather much harder to get back up and fight when you fail a Fortitude save against death effects or petrification or whatnot. Of course, this ability applies when making the save, I dunno, I don't have time right now to check everything for whether or not any Fort-for-partial stuff is still fairly nasty when saved against.</p><p></p><p>I noticed some other strange differences in your version of Mettle. It says it applies only against stuff with a Fortitude save for partial damage or effect. Normally, Mettle applies against stuff that allows a Fortitude save <em>or a Will save</em> for partial effect <em>or no effect</em>. I'm not sure if this is intentional on your part or not (it does seem intentional that you left out Will saves, but I'm not sure about the rest).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Limit this like in D20 Modern. 3 or 5 copies at maximum. Also, should probably be limited to affecting melee damage with weapons, unarmed strikes, natural weapons, and grapple checks (so as not to affect stuff like Shocking Grasp from a multiclassed fellow, which would be kinda wierd when you can't hit stuff harder when you're just tapping them with an electrified finger).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This may or may not be too strong, depending on what kinda action points you're using (frex, D20 Modern's action point rules/allotment are different from Eberron's and others, for instance). I dunno, may be alright even if you get a bundle of AP each level, <em>maybe</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 3567214, member: 13966"] Question: What happens then if someone grows up a peasant farmer, then gets conscripted into the military by his local Lord, and over time becomes a military regular, a professional soldier? Or when a rogue gives up his wicked ways and joins a respectable wizard's academy to put his wits to good use? Or when a middle-aged samurai retires to life in a monastery, practicing martial arts and scholarly pursuits? Or any other time when an individual changes his/her path in life and tries to pursue a different trade/whatever? Another question: does Shield Proficiency in your campaign include tower shields? And if not, has the Tower Shield Proficiency feat been added to your Fighter's bonus feat list? Cuz if anyone should be able to learn to use a tower shield without having to waste one of their precious few normal feat slots, it would be Fighters. This needs clarification. Must they declare use at the time they learn their ally is stricken, or can it be after they learn how much damage their ally would have taken (and thus, whether or not it would've killed or KO'd the ally)? Your wording in the beginning and middle parts of the description are kinda contradictory and thus leave it uncertain. I would at least add a restriction that this War Talent does not stack with any other class' abilities by the same name. Ergo, if a Fighter multiclasses into Duelist later, they would use whichever Canny Defense ability granted the higher bonus, rather than stacking them. Since you're using D20 Modern's class defense bonus, you should recognize the fact that getting to stack lots of AC bonuses together is a Bad Thing when several of those can be quite high (like your Fighter's class defense bonus). D20 Modern itself has far fewer sources of AC/Defense than D&D 3E does (even if using FX in the game, they have a smaller range of FX items and smaller bonuses on some stuff). I'd limit this to 5 copies at maximum, or 3 copies like in D20 Modern. Regdar the upper-level human Fighter [I]probably shouldn't[/I] be bending/snapping adamantine jail cell bars with his bare hands, however unlikely it is that anyone would find a lot of good uses for such inhuman Strength checks. Though, if you limit it to 3 copies, it might be balanced with a +3 bonus per copy instead of +2, given its limited usefulness most of the time. Similarly, this should be limited to maybe 5 copies at maximum, or perhaps 3 copies. 10 copies would allow a Fighter to chop adamantine objects in half pretty easily, while 5 copies would still be a large boon to those who like to break things but wouldn't necessarily be too powerful. I would make it an effective +3 Strength for carrying capacities instead of +2. Also, I think you need to note whether or not this affects pushing/pulling capacities. And again limit it to 5 copies, cuz it would be wierd for a high-level but low-strength (archery and weapon finesse oriented) Halfling Fighter to be lugging around dead ogres on his back. Waaaaaay too good. Initiative can be quite important for multiclassed rogue-types and caster-types, as well as any kind of high-level character. Limit this to 3 copies at most, and add a prerequisite of, like, 4 Fighter levels per copy (so 4th-level minimum to gain 1 copy, 8th minimum to gain a 2nd copy, and 12th minimum to gain a 3rd copy). This is better than the Duelist prestige class' ability, and 10 copies for +20 Initiative would be scary, especially with Improved Initiative and good Dexterity. Heck, 5 copies with a multiclassed Fighter 9/Rogue 11 could be sick. This ability essentially makes the other few save-increasing War Talents comparatively sucky and worthless for a while (and far less cost efficient). This is effectively the same as giving them Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes all at once, except that it stacks with those feats and there are just a few things it won't apply against. Generally just some poisons (works against the Poison spell though), some diseases (works against the Contagion spell though), and Stunning Fist, plus maybe the occasional minor thing. Reduce the bonus to +1. You could add a separate, Greater Magicbane ability though, with prerequisites of Magicbane and Fighter level 11+ or something, that increases the bonus from Magicbane to +2. I'm not sure there's any way to make this balanced. So essentially it's like the Leadership feat, but stacks with that feat, and is much more vague, mentions no limits or possible difficulties in raising such a force, has no limits on how many such fighting forces he or she can gather and keep around, says nothing about what kind of a fighting force this is (warriors, fighters, whatever; 1st-level folks, 5th-level folks, a mix of stuff; same race, different races, same alignment, mixed alignments, same cause/affiliation, different causes/affiliations, allied lands, enemies' lands, etc.), and is basically just terribly vague and open to both rampant abuse and harsh adjudication. I'm not even sure there's any reason for this ability to be there. Why not just add Leadership to the list of Fighter bonus feat options if you want them to be capable of gathering a force of allied warriors? I would raise the prerequisite to 9th-level Fighter or so. Depends a little bit on whether or not you change the description to also apply against effects that allow a Fortitude save to negate. If not, then it may be fine at 5th-level Fighter as a prerequisite. See, Mettle, even when limited for some strange reason as your version is, is generally used to oppose save-or-die effects, save-or-be-taken-out-of-the-fight effects, and save-or-be-seriously-weakened effects. Evasion is used to simply reduce damage (there is little if anything that Evasion applies against that is not either primarily or entirely damage-dealing). Damage is a much easier to deal with effect, and all kinds of other things can reduce or remove it. It's rather much harder to get back up and fight when you fail a Fortitude save against death effects or petrification or whatnot. Of course, this ability applies when making the save, I dunno, I don't have time right now to check everything for whether or not any Fort-for-partial stuff is still fairly nasty when saved against. I noticed some other strange differences in your version of Mettle. It says it applies only against stuff with a Fortitude save for partial damage or effect. Normally, Mettle applies against stuff that allows a Fortitude save [I]or a Will save[/I] for partial effect [I]or no effect[/I]. I'm not sure if this is intentional on your part or not (it does seem intentional that you left out Will saves, but I'm not sure about the rest). Limit this like in D20 Modern. 3 or 5 copies at maximum. Also, should probably be limited to affecting melee damage with weapons, unarmed strikes, natural weapons, and grapple checks (so as not to affect stuff like Shocking Grasp from a multiclassed fellow, which would be kinda wierd when you can't hit stuff harder when you're just tapping them with an electrified finger). This may or may not be too strong, depending on what kinda action points you're using (frex, D20 Modern's action point rules/allotment are different from Eberron's and others, for instance). I dunno, may be alright even if you get a bundle of AP each level, [I]maybe[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Yet Another Variant: The Fighter...
Top