Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
YOU are in charge of the next PHB! What do you change?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8307437" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I can't agree with you there at all. The 3.0 and PF bards were utter trash, but the 2e and 3.5 ones were fine. As for the 1e bard I don't know what Gygax was on when he printed it. </p><p></p><p>The secret to the 2e bard was that it used the thief xp table, putting it a level ahead of the wizard at low levels and with a better hot dice, and the game soft capped at level 9 or 10. It's less trash than a low level wizard, gets armour and weapons, and from memory gets second level spells at exactly the same time as the wizard and fourth level spells only one wizard level later. </p><p></p><p>And the 3.5 bard was tier 3 with a spell list that really took advantage of having some spells at a discount level. Tier 3 isn't trash - it's just not playing caster supremacy. </p><p></p><p>I do - I've probably played more bards than any other class. I want it in its own design space the way the warlock and artificer are. We already have five spell spamming classes. I want a bard that either harmonizes with or syncopates with the party, either amplifying everyone's strengths or smoothing over and covering their weaknesses. </p><p></p><p>My current thoughts are that a harmonising bard shares around one ability from each other party member based on their class. So if you have a barbarian who rages then the bard's harmonic war cry 1/day let's everyone else in the party including fighter, cleric, or bard (or even wizard) join in the rage. And if you have a rogue then the bard can as a bonus action cause a synchronised distraction to allow a party member to disengage or hide as a bonus action on their turn. </p><p></p><p>Nope. I just find that with the existence of five other full casters in the PHB a sixth is boring. If it's the only way to make a ard that's up to the mark, then so be it. It's at least better than 3.0 and Pathfinder trash and closer to balance than 3.5 managed. </p><p></p><p>As you say. The 2e bard wasn't trash. </p><p></p><p>Unless you knew what you were doing in 3.5 when you had unique and broken spells like Glibness, had a 2e like ability to get spells like Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Otto's Irresistible Dance sometimes even before the wizard, and there were enough ways of stacking bonuses to Inspire Courage that I gave the entire party +4 to hit and damage at level 3, and could maintain it for ages. Even the wizard was occasionally charging and stabbing orcs to death. </p><p></p><p>Pathfinder broke literally all that. </p><p></p><p>Agreed</p><p></p><p>And is just the sixth powerhouse full caster. I want more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8307437, member: 87792"] I can't agree with you there at all. The 3.0 and PF bards were utter trash, but the 2e and 3.5 ones were fine. As for the 1e bard I don't know what Gygax was on when he printed it. The secret to the 2e bard was that it used the thief xp table, putting it a level ahead of the wizard at low levels and with a better hot dice, and the game soft capped at level 9 or 10. It's less trash than a low level wizard, gets armour and weapons, and from memory gets second level spells at exactly the same time as the wizard and fourth level spells only one wizard level later. And the 3.5 bard was tier 3 with a spell list that really took advantage of having some spells at a discount level. Tier 3 isn't trash - it's just not playing caster supremacy. I do - I've probably played more bards than any other class. I want it in its own design space the way the warlock and artificer are. We already have five spell spamming classes. I want a bard that either harmonizes with or syncopates with the party, either amplifying everyone's strengths or smoothing over and covering their weaknesses. My current thoughts are that a harmonising bard shares around one ability from each other party member based on their class. So if you have a barbarian who rages then the bard's harmonic war cry 1/day let's everyone else in the party including fighter, cleric, or bard (or even wizard) join in the rage. And if you have a rogue then the bard can as a bonus action cause a synchronised distraction to allow a party member to disengage or hide as a bonus action on their turn. Nope. I just find that with the existence of five other full casters in the PHB a sixth is boring. If it's the only way to make a ard that's up to the mark, then so be it. It's at least better than 3.0 and Pathfinder trash and closer to balance than 3.5 managed. As you say. The 2e bard wasn't trash. Unless you knew what you were doing in 3.5 when you had unique and broken spells like Glibness, had a 2e like ability to get spells like Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Otto's Irresistible Dance sometimes even before the wizard, and there were enough ways of stacking bonuses to Inspire Courage that I gave the entire party +4 to hit and damage at level 3, and could maintain it for ages. Even the wizard was occasionally charging and stabbing orcs to death. Pathfinder broke literally all that. Agreed And is just the sixth powerhouse full caster. I want more. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
YOU are in charge of the next PHB! What do you change?
Top