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<blockquote data-quote="triqui" data-source="post: 6002051" data-attributes="member: 57948">not exactly, the difference, ussually, is that DM tend to trump non combat more than combat with the &quot;because I say so&quot; rule. Few DM will openly said &quot;no, you don't crit, I don't find it right that you kill the monster so fast&quot;. But they'll deny you the chance to make the hostile Drow Queen helpful, even if you roll the needed 55+ Diplomacy DC needed. I remember a game where the bard, using Glibness, made a 65 roll in bluff to cheat the devil. It didnt work, because the DM handwaived so. So the bard and the group proceeded to demolish him with haste, wich isnt handwaived so often. And probably you cant solve the mistery of magic with a roll of 55+ in Arcande Lore either, just like most investigations run at plot speed, no matter how overwhelmingly and godly high your character's perspicacy is.The king of munchkinism and mixmaxing is 3e PunPun build (go google it if you havent heard about it). And it is not a combat focused char, it starts with a couple Arcane Lore checks. That's exactly why every sane DM will ban it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Non combat minmaxing is waaaay much more campaign breaking.&nbsp;I also think it is a much better game. I tend to like political/social games with investigation and moral troubles above any other. However there are a ton of different chars in combat focused games too. In 4e, you can have single target builds, aoe, stunlocking, nova damage, controlling, tanks, ranged, summoners... The thing is they all go around combat, ignoring the other two approachs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="triqui, post: 6002051, member: 57948"] not exactly, the difference, ussually, is that DM tend to trump non combat more than combat with the "because I say so" rule. Few DM will openly said "no, you don't crit, I don't find it right that you kill the monster so fast". But they'll deny you the chance to make the hostile Drow Queen helpful, even if you roll the needed 55+ Diplomacy DC needed. I remember a game where the bard, using Glibness, made a 65 roll in bluff to cheat the devil. It didnt work, because the DM handwaived so. So the bard and the group proceeded to demolish him with haste, wich isnt handwaived so often. And probably you cant solve the mistery of magic with a roll of 55+ in Arcande Lore either, just like most investigations run at plot speed, no matter how overwhelmingly and godly high your character's perspicacy is. The king of munchkinism and mixmaxing is 3e PunPun build (go google it if you havent heard about it). And it is not a combat focused char, it starts with a couple Arcane Lore checks. That's exactly why every sane DM will ban it :p Non combat minmaxing is waaaay much more campaign breaking. I also think it is a much better game. I tend to like political/social games with investigation and moral troubles above any other. However there are a ton of different chars in combat focused games too. In 4e, you can have single target builds, aoe, stunlocking, nova damage, controlling, tanks, ranged, summoners... The thing is they all go around combat, ignoring the other two approachs. [/QUOTE]

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