Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="triqui" data-source="post: 6006039" data-attributes="member: 57948">Then the defintion you gave us, and that I bolded( " I'm talking about the player modifying the story in a way that his character could not do."=, is wrong.By your new definition, hit points are plot coupons, because hit points are dissociative.Why would the character says something I don't want him to say?He might be doing the same move once and again. Just that it does not do 4[w] damage, because you don't get the opening needed. For the character, it does make sense. It's like Myke tyson trying to launch "Brutal left hook of KO". He does it every "round". However, it only connects once.err... what??? How is the story modified because the player knows that? How is it different than the player not casting again his fireball? The story ISN'T modified. What you have, is that the explanation in-world, is different (the second explanation being "a wizard did it"). It does not modify the story. The story is that thing about the big bad dragon sequestering the princess.So, "who knows" stands for "a wizard did it" and "as a wizard did it, I don't care for more". It's what I've said: the chimp is small enough, that you can coexist with it in the same room. That doesn't mean others can. Some people see clearly the chimp out there, moving his hands, while Heronious let his paladin, his temple, and his whole followers die a horrible death just because he dosen't want to give the pc a third smite evil.You maybe want to talk about the same thing, but what you explained there, what The alexandrian explained in his blog, and the definition you gave us a few post ago about plot coupons, do not  match.Dissociative mechanics are when you, as the player, know something your character does not. Hit points are disociative, just like martial dailies are.What you said about plot coupons, not long ago, is that it's when you, as the player, do something that modify the story, in a way the character cannot to. By that last definition, HP aren't plot coupons, but martial dailies aren't either.I only see one thing in common between that definition, and the first one. "things you don't like". Or, as I put before "too obvious gorillas in the room". Which are a subjetive view, and a case of selective perception.Barbarians rages per day are magical then? Or they aren't associative?I think the bolded part made it clear for you. You need "a wizard did it" to cause enough suspension of disbelief so you can comfortabily coexist with the ape in the room.Why would the character decide that in desesperation if I, as the player, do not wont to?? Unless you, as the DM, dominate him, I won't make that decision, ever. My character is Lawful Neutral, and he won't break his vow, under any circunstances.So you ban 3.X barbarians, and the AD&D 2e Samurai (with 1x day Kiai)?Frankly it was, because the definitions you gave are different. The common factor is that you don't like any of them, because all of them make the gorilla too clear. Which is abslutely fine. That's why people with different "tolerance to gorillas" have different editions they like Some of them are blind to 4e gorillas (like Tony with martial dailies), some others see those gorillas, but are blind to 3e ones (like hit points, high level fighters gaining a fortune with russian roulettes,  or LG gods leaving their paladins fail and die for a metagame construct), and some others are blind to 2e gorillas (like clerics being more resistant to fall in a hole trap than rogues, because they have better petrification save throw).It's a matter of selective perception. Each one's brain choses what things it's going to ignore, to make  us happy with our game and not disturbing by the glaring gorilla.</blockquote>

Verification