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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6007388" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm not sure why you say that 4e moves away from open-ended campaigns. It has clear rules for PCs from 1 to 30. It has high level PCs which can be complex to build and play cold, but benefit from being developed and played organically over time. And it has numerous suggestions, in a range of sourcebooks , for possible campaign arcs drawing on the published material(DMG2, Underdark, Plane Above, Plane Below, plus I think others that I've forgotten).My own 4e campaign has been going since early 2009, is currently at 17th level, and (on current projections) has another 2 or so years to run.I agree with Obryn here (and <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=6004062&postcount=9" target="_blank">posted about this</a> in the "Flat Maths" thread). The fiction changes pretty significantly: PCs become Knight Commanders, or Questing Knights, or Demonskin Adepts, or Divine Philosophers (to pull out some of the more evocative paragon paths - not all are as interesting, or embedded in an expanding fiction, as these), and then in due course become demigods, chosen, emergent primordials, or other appropriately epic protagonists. And their antagonists go from being the traditional humanoid rabble, to te most powerful figures of the various mythical worlds: demon princes, archfey, and even gods.The fun part of higher levels in 4e isn't that the maths changes (it is flat, because of the uniformity and transparency of scaling); it's that the fiction changes. The fictional stakes become higher and more complex. This is one of several respects in which 4e resembles some indie RPGs.Then I would point them to games like <a href="http://www.halfmeme.com/WFDrules.html" target="_blank">The World, the Flesh and the Devil</a> (it's free, and a single html page of less than 1000 words) or anything by <a href="http://theunstore.com/unstore/publisher/lumpley_games" target="_blank">Vincent Baker</a>. I wouldn't particularly be looking to any version of D&D to satisfy those aesthetic desiderata (although in my own view more can be done with D&D tropes than might sometimes be recognised).</blockquote>

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