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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7966752" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The reason the party cannot approach in the day by stealth is because there is no concealment.&nbsp; They will be seen because of it.&nbsp; That can be resolved by invisibility if the party can cover it, or possibly a magical or mundane disguise.&nbsp; Then the light doesn't matter.Night allows concealment because the moon is overcast that night and the party can use stealth at that point unless they carry a light source.If the party can learn the schedule of the inhabitants then plan the attack when they are sleeping.&nbsp; It doesn't matter night or day as long as the party can better enable surprise.&nbsp; These monsters cannot be awake 24/7.&nbsp; If the party can plan for a time the monsters are sleeping they might be able to take out the guard by ranged attack, or invisible assassination.&nbsp; No alarm raised.&nbsp; That depends on how the adventure is progressing.Fireball isn't an auto win even if the group did have it.&nbsp; The area is huge and spread out, and divided into four quadrants.&nbsp; The ogres are in one corner so starting the attack in the opposite corner starting with orcs even on a full assault would leave 1-2 rounds for the other orcs to move to the PC's and a bit more for the ogres.&nbsp; Or start with the ogres as the orcs move in.&nbsp; There is some time to work with in this case.&nbsp; Fireball (or other AoE) only works if the party can gather all the opponents close enough together, and even then it won't drop the ogres, or the orcs (on average damage) if they save.&nbsp; 2 fireballs won't drop the ogres.&nbsp; If a person wants to try that method then the entrance to the courtyard is probably the chokepoint to use iirc.&nbsp; A large group lured together that takes 2 fireballs if the party lasts long enough to launch both would be devastated.You might want silence instead to keep the noise of battle from attracting opponents from other quadrants.More on the party would be helpful.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7966752, member: 6750235"] The reason the party cannot approach in the day by stealth is because there is no concealment. They will be seen because of it. That can be resolved by invisibility if the party can cover it, or possibly a magical or mundane disguise. Then the light doesn't matter. Night allows concealment because the moon is overcast that night and the party can use stealth at that point unless they carry a light source. If the party can learn the schedule of the inhabitants then plan the attack when they are sleeping. It doesn't matter night or day as long as the party can better enable surprise. These monsters cannot be awake 24/7. If the party can plan for a time the monsters are sleeping they might be able to take out the guard by ranged attack, or invisible assassination. No alarm raised. That depends on how the adventure is progressing. Fireball isn't an auto win even if the group did have it. The area is huge and spread out, and divided into four quadrants. The ogres are in one corner so starting the attack in the opposite corner starting with orcs even on a full assault would leave 1-2 rounds for the other orcs to move to the PC's and a bit more for the ogres. Or start with the ogres as the orcs move in. There is some time to work with in this case. Fireball (or other AoE) only works if the party can gather all the opponents close enough together, and even then it won't drop the ogres, or the orcs (on average damage) if they save. 2 fireballs won't drop the ogres. If a person wants to try that method then the entrance to the courtyard is probably the chokepoint to use iirc. A large group lured together that takes 2 fireballs if the party lasts long enough to launch both would be devastated. You might want silence instead to keep the noise of battle from attracting opponents from other quadrants. More on the party would be helpful. ;) [/QUOTE]

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