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You Have One Last Chance - Do You Try PF2?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7877592" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>You really should explain more on why you think your campaign-starts have petered out?</p><p></p><p>Is it because the players don't have enough free time? Or because they aren't interested in learning new rules? Maybe they don't have time or energy, with life and all?</p><p></p><p>I'm asking because Savage Worlds, AFAIK, is a rather inviting simple game. Warhammer Fantasy 1E and 2E are too. You wouldn't expect such a game to flounder on basis of rules complexity.</p><p></p><p>(If you attempted to run WFRP4, on the other hand, you have my sympathies - that game is in my opinion a trainwreck of epic proportions. I even think PF2 is easier to learn and teach, which really is saying something)</p><p></p><p>Of course, there might be other reasons. Chiefly what DWChancellor says - if <strong>you</strong> don't like a system as a Games Master, nothing will help. But of course, there might be other issues - such as creating characters that doesn't gel with the story, or the chosen campaign story not engaging the players, etc.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, you asked about Pathfinder 2. I would say it sets a <strong>very high</strong> bar for beginners. It is very complex to master, and not a suitable intro game at all. </p><p></p><p>If you just want to play the game casual, well, you can't. Unless you engage with the myriad (very) small things, I would assume the game loses most of its <em>raison d'etre</em>.</p><p></p><p>Everything is codified and given specific parameters in this game. As a GM, any time you try to be generous and "just say yes" you will likely have wrecked a feat that gives a character the power you just handed out for free. Basically, your players need to love finding +1 bonuses. I would guess most 5E players would be intensely turned off by the idea their characters should make an effort just to gain a "measly" +1 bonus here or there, but that's considered very valuable and attractive by PF2.</p><p></p><p>On one hand, PF2 should attract gamers dissatisfied with the relative dearth of build option (crunch) in 5th Edition. On the other, the game unfortunately went in a locked-down direction which does share a certain resemblance to D&D 4. This can be very frustrating for players accustomed to the wonderful freedom of D&D 3 and Pathfinder 1. (A freedom that also led to fantastically broken combos, of course).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7877592, member: 12731"] You really should explain more on why you think your campaign-starts have petered out? Is it because the players don't have enough free time? Or because they aren't interested in learning new rules? Maybe they don't have time or energy, with life and all? I'm asking because Savage Worlds, AFAIK, is a rather inviting simple game. Warhammer Fantasy 1E and 2E are too. You wouldn't expect such a game to flounder on basis of rules complexity. (If you attempted to run WFRP4, on the other hand, you have my sympathies - that game is in my opinion a trainwreck of epic proportions. I even think PF2 is easier to learn and teach, which really is saying something) Of course, there might be other reasons. Chiefly what DWChancellor says - if [B]you[/B] don't like a system as a Games Master, nothing will help. But of course, there might be other issues - such as creating characters that doesn't gel with the story, or the chosen campaign story not engaging the players, etc. Anyway, you asked about Pathfinder 2. I would say it sets a [B]very high[/B] bar for beginners. It is very complex to master, and not a suitable intro game at all. If you just want to play the game casual, well, you can't. Unless you engage with the myriad (very) small things, I would assume the game loses most of its [I]raison d'etre[/I]. Everything is codified and given specific parameters in this game. As a GM, any time you try to be generous and "just say yes" you will likely have wrecked a feat that gives a character the power you just handed out for free. Basically, your players need to love finding +1 bonuses. I would guess most 5E players would be intensely turned off by the idea their characters should make an effort just to gain a "measly" +1 bonus here or there, but that's considered very valuable and attractive by PF2. On one hand, PF2 should attract gamers dissatisfied with the relative dearth of build option (crunch) in 5th Edition. On the other, the game unfortunately went in a locked-down direction which does share a certain resemblance to D&D 4. This can be very frustrating for players accustomed to the wonderful freedom of D&D 3 and Pathfinder 1. (A freedom that also led to fantastically broken combos, of course). [/QUOTE]
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