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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 8275146" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>I see what you’re saying here. The Legendary Creature section talks about how they can have Lair Actions, but Lair Actions could just be a more general thing that they are referencing in that context. They could also include Lair Actions in other places. Is that a correct representation?</p><p></p><p>Thats a reasonable point so I went back and examined it to reevaluate. What I discovered is there are two problems with the idea. The lesser problem is consistency. If Lair Actions are a general thing, it would make more sense for them to be introduced (change my statement about them being “addressed” to “introduced”) in a general place in the Intro section rather than as a subheading of a subheading of the Legendary Creatures heading. Now, its possible they just made a mistake and forgot they didn‘t previously address it somewhere more general, but I think that is less likely than it being intentional. It is possible that its a hidden rule. There are a few apparent rules like that that seem to have general applicability though they are hidden away in some limited context, like the debatable rules for non-standard familiars being connected to the find familiar spell (and deriving all its benefits) that I argue in favor of. However in this case I find it less likely, and the second problem provides stronger support for that. While dragons do describe their Lair Actions in the dragon entries, they fail to give some of the general rules for Lair Actions, which are only introduced/fully addressed in the Legendary Creatures subcategory. The rules in bold are missing from the dragon entries:</p><p></p><h4>“Lair Actions</h4><p>If a legendary creature has lair actions, it can use them to harness the ambient magic in its lair. On initiative count 20 (losing all initiative ties), it can use one of its lair action options. <strong>It can’t do so while incapacitated or otherwise unable to take actions. If surprised, it can’t use one until after its first turn in the combat.</strong>”</p><p></p><p>So either you don‘t reference the Legendary Creatures section and just have dragons be exempt from those rules (as well as every other Legendary creature if the basis is only reading what is in the creature entry and not referencing the intro, since none of them include those rules in their entries), or you could reference those rules for legendary dragons, but since they explicitly only refer to legendary creatures and you are applying these lair actions to non-legendary creatures of which nothing was spoken you exempt those creatures from those bolded rules. Or you could do as I do and assume that the dragon Lair Action’s section’s reliance on rules only fully addressed in the Legendary Creatures section means that it only applies to Legendary dragons. I feel that‘s a more consistent interpretation of the textual evidence.</p><p></p><p>As far as Chris Perkins…he may be coming down with a case of Crawforditis, where his opinion on the 5e rules changes without warning in ways that would make you think he always thought the new way, were it not for the documented evidence to the contrary. (I actually like Jeremy Crawford, but he does change his mind on what the rules he wrote meant, and he’s way more focused on rules minutia than Chris Perkins.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 8275146, member: 6677017"] I see what you’re saying here. The Legendary Creature section talks about how they can have Lair Actions, but Lair Actions could just be a more general thing that they are referencing in that context. They could also include Lair Actions in other places. Is that a correct representation? Thats a reasonable point so I went back and examined it to reevaluate. What I discovered is there are two problems with the idea. The lesser problem is consistency. If Lair Actions are a general thing, it would make more sense for them to be introduced (change my statement about them being “addressed” to “introduced”) in a general place in the Intro section rather than as a subheading of a subheading of the Legendary Creatures heading. Now, its possible they just made a mistake and forgot they didn‘t previously address it somewhere more general, but I think that is less likely than it being intentional. It is possible that its a hidden rule. There are a few apparent rules like that that seem to have general applicability though they are hidden away in some limited context, like the debatable rules for non-standard familiars being connected to the find familiar spell (and deriving all its benefits) that I argue in favor of. However in this case I find it less likely, and the second problem provides stronger support for that. While dragons do describe their Lair Actions in the dragon entries, they fail to give some of the general rules for Lair Actions, which are only introduced/fully addressed in the Legendary Creatures subcategory. The rules in bold are missing from the dragon entries: [HEADING=3]“Lair Actions[/HEADING] If a legendary creature has lair actions, it can use them to harness the ambient magic in its lair. On initiative count 20 (losing all initiative ties), it can use one of its lair action options. [B]It can’t do so while incapacitated or otherwise unable to take actions. If surprised, it can’t use one until after its first turn in the combat.[/B]” So either you don‘t reference the Legendary Creatures section and just have dragons be exempt from those rules (as well as every other Legendary creature if the basis is only reading what is in the creature entry and not referencing the intro, since none of them include those rules in their entries), or you could reference those rules for legendary dragons, but since they explicitly only refer to legendary creatures and you are applying these lair actions to non-legendary creatures of which nothing was spoken you exempt those creatures from those bolded rules. Or you could do as I do and assume that the dragon Lair Action’s section’s reliance on rules only fully addressed in the Legendary Creatures section means that it only applies to Legendary dragons. I feel that‘s a more consistent interpretation of the textual evidence. As far as Chris Perkins…he may be coming down with a case of Crawforditis, where his opinion on the 5e rules changes without warning in ways that would make you think he always thought the new way, were it not for the documented evidence to the contrary. (I actually like Jeremy Crawford, but he does change his mind on what the rules he wrote meant, and he’s way more focused on rules minutia than Chris Perkins.) [/QUOTE]
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