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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4510456" data-attributes="member: 710">What do you expect for an answer? Well, for the record: No, I am fine with the PCs just dying in there. I might not even care about rolling the 20d6 of damage 3E would suggest. I don't know how Death Flag game would rule such a situation, but maybe the PC would drop unconscious from the gases and heat before he could actually enter the lava.I am not sure if you fail to see where we agree and where we disagree.The fundamental problems of &quot;real&quot; save or die effects (like that created by a Bodak or a Medusa, not one created by the fact that the last 2 rounds you took 40 points of damage and have now 5 hit points left and don't try to to heal or run away or do something to avoid the next amout of damage) is that they can be used in an &quot;information vacuum&quot;. There are no &quot;safeguards&quot; in the system that ensure that your PC will know of the danger and can protect himself from it. This allows an &quot;abuse&quot; (in the sense of creating unfair or uncontrollable situations for the players) even if is not intended.No one is advocating that there should be no consequences for bad decisions. The point is that there can be decisions that are bad without the players having the possibility to see this. If I ignore the hints of a Medusa, well, I shouldn't be surprised that I get turned to stone. But what if the Medusa just didn't leave any such hints? Was I supposed to open every door with my eyes closed? Or should I have known to cast my Augury or Diviniation spell now instead of for the next door? How should I know this? Even if I knew the Medusa is somewhere around, what can I do, especially if my goal is to find her?Another point is - the consequence of bad decisions doesn't have to be death, and in some games and for some groups death is an uninteresting consequence. If the players make an error, the characters will have to deal with the consequences.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4510456, member: 710"] What do you expect for an answer? Well, for the record: No, I am fine with the PCs just dying in there. I might not even care about rolling the 20d6 of damage 3E would suggest. I don't know how Death Flag game would rule such a situation, but maybe the PC would drop unconscious from the gases and heat before he could actually enter the lava. I am not sure if you fail to see where we agree and where we disagree. The fundamental problems of "real" save or die effects (like that created by a Bodak or a Medusa, not one created by the fact that the last 2 rounds you took 40 points of damage and have now 5 hit points left and don't try to to heal or run away or do something to avoid the next amout of damage) is that they can be used in an "information vacuum". There are no "safeguards" in the system that ensure that your PC will know of the danger and can protect himself from it. This allows an "abuse" (in the sense of creating unfair or uncontrollable situations for the players) even if is not intended. No one is advocating that there should be no consequences for bad decisions. The point is that there can be decisions that are bad without the players having the possibility to see this. If I ignore the hints of a Medusa, well, I shouldn't be surprised that I get turned to stone. But what if the Medusa just didn't leave any such hints? Was I supposed to open every door with my eyes closed? Or should I have known to cast my Augury or Diviniation spell now instead of for the next door? How should I know this? Even if I knew the Medusa is somewhere around, what can I do, especially if my goal is to find her? Another point is - the consequence of bad decisions doesn't have to be death, and in some games and for some groups death is an uninteresting consequence. If the players make an error, the characters will have to deal with the consequences. [/QUOTE]

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