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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 4099399" data-attributes="member: 13107">The problem is that this argument is essential thin, and because of the thinness, collapses too quickly back to the assertion that the only way to judge the PHB is is to read it:Person A: You cannot judge the PHB without reading it.Person B: Why not?Person A: Just because.That is, person A is presenting a very thin modification to an assertion:A: You cannot judge a book without reading it.To get back to the earlier discussion, we need to move beyond thin arguments.  The question should be more along the lines: What is reasonable to infer about the PHB given the information we have so far?I personally don't think that the answer is "nothing".  Otherwise, what is the point of the preview material?  Isn't the whole idea to give us a taste of the overall game system?Here is what I am hearing so far:A: Hey, in 3.5E, I can trip, disarm, pin, and do subdual damage (with restrictions).  What is there in 4E that lets me do similar things?B: Well, not so much trip, disarm, or pin.  But you can declare what would otherwise be a killing blow to be non-lethal.A: Well, that seems rather limiting.  Even if I'm a lot stronger or more capable, I can't even try those actions?B: Nope.A: So I can declare a crossbow bolt or a fireball to be non-lethal?  I can decide even after I've rolled damage?B: Yep.A: Hmm, that doesn't feel quite right to me.  I can make an acid spash non-lethal?(And so on.)</blockquote>

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