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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4102557" data-attributes="member: 42582">This isn't really going anywhere, but I'll have one last go.Yes, the argument falls over if you excise (ii).Likewise for the following argument:(i) All humans are mortal;(ii) Socrates is human;Therefore,(iii) Socrates if mortal.But the most famous of all syllogisms is not, therefore, a circular argument.In your dialogue, someone asserts that you can't make that judgment without reading it. Pawsplay asks for a reason. Someone offers one, namely, that you cannot judge its worth without familiarity. Pawsplay asks how to become familiar, and is told that you can become familiar by reading it. There is no circularity. Each of the italicised propositions is a distinct proposition. The first such proposition is the conclusion of the argument. The second two are the premises. Each premise contributes to the argument, but neither entails the conclusion in isolation.  What more do you want from an argument, besides the truth of the premises?By the way, the answer to Pawsplay's final rhetorical question is No. That is someone's first assertion that familiarity depends upon reading. Now, if Pawsplay wants to dispute that reading is the sole path to familiarity, I'll agree. But there's still no circularity.If Pawsplay had asserted that it was possible to be familiar without having read the PHB, there would still be no circularity, but at least there would be a begging of the question against Pawsplay (because the argument would depend upon an unsupported premise that Pawsplay has rejected). But Pawsplay not having asserted any theory of familiarity, there was no begging of the question either.No, the argument was and is, "You cannot judge a book without being familiar with it, and familiarity depends upon reading it; hence, you can't judge the PHB without reading it." The conclusion is (IMO) doubtful, but the argument is not circular.</blockquote>

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