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Message: <blockquote data-quote="abirdcall" data-source="post: 7921925" data-attributes="member: 6748898">Maybe this comes from your earlier comment about playing non-class based games. D&D is a class based game and I think if you try to turn it into one that isn't you're losing out.Classes are packaged themes that strongly marry different design components together into cohesive themes. The classes as a whole provide a solid thematic framework to create characters, parties, and as a result, campaigns from.I think if you are going to play a class based game you should embrace it. Square pegs for square holes.I think 5e did many great things one of which was the inclusion of subclasses and relegating multiclassing to an optional rule. Smashing chassis and archetypes together with multiclassing is a mess. Subclasses work with the class based system to expand upon the base chassis/framework that is the class. Subclasses are the way to do multiclassing right. We agree about needing the group to be on the same page. It is a collectively played game. I don't think people are free to create and play their characters however they want. Not if it diminishes the fun of others in the group. These discussions come up in forums regularly but I've only had 1 situation come up in real life in the last 6 years. Everyone else I've played with has seen their choices, read about the classes and races and designed characters from what it says in the books. And many were creative and interesting characters. Different tastes of course but I tend to find the gimmick and exotic race characters less interesting in general as players tend to just rely on the gimmick and 'newness'.Anyway, to the issue. The player wanted to play a Cleric but had no interest in being religious. At all. I tried to work with her. I said, well, she can worship the divine essence or ideal of the domain and the appropriate deity will step in to get her, her powers. She even wanted the Trickery Domain which makes total sense to not have direct worship with such a deity. But nope, she just wanted her character to have those powers and abilities.So I said no. That character was incompatible with the game we were playing.Whether or not you would say no for whatever game you imagine playing, is that not a reasonable stance to take on some character concepts?I think it is a strength of the game to have classes create a large part of the identity of a character. There is a lot of room there for how and why that manifests and for many other characteristics outside of class.You've lost me. How is this not agreeing with me?Like, I don't see a problem with your game, but you have a problem with me not having a problem with it? You changed some rules to allow some characters and not allow others and there is nothing wrong with that.Why should people see something wrong with that?I'm confused.</blockquote>

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