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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 9853590" data-attributes="member: 6787503">I too am a fan of the lore about orcs having been bred from captured and twisted elves. I read the published form of The Silmarillion in my early teens, and, for many years, it formed the basis of my narrative about their origin. As you probably know, JRR Tolkien's writing on the matter never achieved a finished form, and the true origin of the orcs was left an open question at the time of his death. He floated other ideas including being made by Morgoth "of the subterranean heats and slime" (magma?) possibly "in mockery" of the elves but not actual elves, descent from "Boldogs", i.e. maiar in goblin-form, and being bred from beasts or corrupted men.I've taken to answering this question for myself with an "all of the above" approach, but, after reading A Book on Nymphs, Sylphs, Pygmies, and Salamanders, and on the Other Spirits by Paracelsus, my views have taken an unexpected turn. That orcs are indeed "beasts" in origin, but in the sense Paracelsus describes all his "spirit-men", as lacking an immortal soul. The particular beast from which orcs are derived I identify with what Paracelsus calls vulcans/salamanders, "the fire people whose yelling, hammering, and working can be heard in volcanic mountains" and "when the elements are incinerated." Their bodies are "long, narrow, and lean", and "they can speak but roughly and rarely."But what is the origin of these vulcani who were then corrupted and bred into the dark lord's foot soldiers? Importantly, Paracelsus describes his "spirit-men" as part of the natural world, which reminds me of this quote, spoken by Frodo in LotR, Book 6, Chapter I (p 914 in my copy):The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the Orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures.The natural world and its living creatures, in Tolkien's legendarium, are a realization of the Music of the Ainur, which brings this passage to mind: But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony. (Ainulindalë) Later in The Silmarillion, Manwë speaks with Yavanna, saying: 'O Kementári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementári, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.' This seems to describe an example of the singing "but few together" described in the earlier passage, in this case concerning Manwë and Yavanna, and, by extension, I imagine other pairings of thought might have taken place between Yavanna and others of the Ainur to produce other types of living creatures. Given the fiery nature of the vulcani, therefore, might not they be the result of a meeting in song of the thoughts of Yavanna and Melkor?</blockquote>

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