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ShortQuests -- Pocket Sized Adventures! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed for 1-2 game sessions.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
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Your CR limit for an average 1st level party?
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 9869939" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Indeed, I've taken a second look at a few CR3 monsters and the main issue seems to be the damage they can do on a single lucky attack roll. </p><p></p><p>A single CR3 monster qualifies as a "deadly" encounter for 4 or 5 PCs of 1st level, while a single CR2 monster qualifies as "deadly" for 4 PCs and as "hard" for 5 PCs. But "deadly" sounds to me like an appropriate encounter for the <em>ending </em>of a an adventure, otherwise there is a good risk of an underwhelming finale. I've used "deadly" encounters all the time at higher levels, but admittedly it's been a few years since I DMed a 1st level game, and previously I did that only for beginners (of either 5e or D&D as a whole) which means I went <em>very easy </em>on the combat pillar.</p><p></p><p>Looking at some iconic monsters of CR3, their single-turn damage is just way too high, they seem <em>very likely</em> to kill a 1st level character, for example:</p><p></p><p><strong>Mummy</strong>: average damage is 20, and that's actually enough to insta-kill anyone with 10hp (but also martial types who have lost about half their hp already); if it scores a critical, it rolls 10d6+3 and the average is 38, yikes!</p><p><strong>Minotaur</strong>: average damage with greataxe is only slightly lower with 17, and this monster is harder to hit and has more hp than the mummy so it will last a longer number of rounds</p><p><strong>Blue Dragon Wyrmling</strong>: average damage is 11 which is a lot better, but then obviously it has the breath weapon which averages 22 and hits multiple targets</p><p><strong>Owlbear</strong>: two attacks averaging 10+14=24 meaning even worst than the mummy (OTOH its criticals are less random and average 39)</p><p></p><p>I consider the possibility of insta-kill a 1st level PCs due to massive damage the worst eventuality, because it doesn't give a chance to the rest of the party to save the fallen buddy. <em>Average </em>damage close to 20 is definitely way too risky... When I look at CR2 monsters, they seem to be well below that (except other Dragon Wyrmlings' breath weapons). Insta-kill can still happen on a crit or a lucky damage roll, but if it happens on an <em>average</em> damage roll then it sounds quite likely that it <em>will</em> happen <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😕" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" title="Confused face :confused:" data-shortname=":confused:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>There's still however a few monsters at CR3 which seem to be less risky in terms of insta-kills. They have damage resistance though, which can make them last longer, so it's possible that their typical average <em>encounter damage</em> is on par with the previous, but still at least they don't insta-kill PCs unless they crit or roll luckily:</p><p></p><p><strong>Werewolf</strong>: two attacks with average total between 10-13, but with possible lycanthropy curse</p><p><strong>Wight</strong>: two attacks with average total between 11-12, but with possible max hp drain</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 9869939, member: 1465"] Indeed, I've taken a second look at a few CR3 monsters and the main issue seems to be the damage they can do on a single lucky attack roll. A single CR3 monster qualifies as a "deadly" encounter for 4 or 5 PCs of 1st level, while a single CR2 monster qualifies as "deadly" for 4 PCs and as "hard" for 5 PCs. But "deadly" sounds to me like an appropriate encounter for the [I]ending [/I]of a an adventure, otherwise there is a good risk of an underwhelming finale. I've used "deadly" encounters all the time at higher levels, but admittedly it's been a few years since I DMed a 1st level game, and previously I did that only for beginners (of either 5e or D&D as a whole) which means I went [I]very easy [/I]on the combat pillar. Looking at some iconic monsters of CR3, their single-turn damage is just way too high, they seem [I]very likely[/I] to kill a 1st level character, for example: [B]Mummy[/B]: average damage is 20, and that's actually enough to insta-kill anyone with 10hp (but also martial types who have lost about half their hp already); if it scores a critical, it rolls 10d6+3 and the average is 38, yikes! [B]Minotaur[/B]: average damage with greataxe is only slightly lower with 17, and this monster is harder to hit and has more hp than the mummy so it will last a longer number of rounds [B]Blue Dragon Wyrmling[/B]: average damage is 11 which is a lot better, but then obviously it has the breath weapon which averages 22 and hits multiple targets [B]Owlbear[/B]: two attacks averaging 10+14=24 meaning even worst than the mummy (OTOH its criticals are less random and average 39) I consider the possibility of insta-kill a 1st level PCs due to massive damage the worst eventuality, because it doesn't give a chance to the rest of the party to save the fallen buddy. [I]Average [/I]damage close to 20 is definitely way too risky... When I look at CR2 monsters, they seem to be well below that (except other Dragon Wyrmlings' breath weapons). Insta-kill can still happen on a crit or a lucky damage roll, but if it happens on an [I]average[/I] damage roll then it sounds quite likely that it [I]will[/I] happen 😕 There's still however a few monsters at CR3 which seem to be less risky in terms of insta-kills. They have damage resistance though, which can make them last longer, so it's possible that their typical average [I]encounter damage[/I] is on par with the previous, but still at least they don't insta-kill PCs unless they crit or roll luckily: [B]Werewolf[/B]: two attacks with average total between 10-13, but with possible lycanthropy curse [B]Wight[/B]: two attacks with average total between 11-12, but with possible max hp drain [/QUOTE]
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