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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Your experiences with broken Pathfinder characters? (edit: more accurately, w/1 avg PF character when the rest of the party is meh)
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6109349" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>So, as a general rule I expect PC AC to average 14+character level. You've basically got two outliers - a human wizard that has spent no resources on AC and a twinked character that has spent a rather good deal of them. In practice though, I think the AC of your wizard would hit 21 using the same tricks as the sorcerer and the wizard would be better at those tricks (higher caster level). The Aasimar's AC is - sans spell use - actually only 19 which is pretty close to where it should be.</p><p></p><p>It will probably come as no surprise that build you are complaining about depends on a lot of things I don't allow: aasimar, zen archery, and monks for example are all unavailable under my house rules (as are warforged and PrCs generally). That said, in the long run this character isn't going to be a big problem compared to your full spellcasters unless the character has a particular PrC in mind that has a lot of synergy. </p><p></p><p>3.X has huge balance issues, and Pathfinder hasn't really even tried to address that issue. If you want balance, you'll going to need to take 3.X into a different direction than Pathfinder has taken it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Tossing Dispel Magic at her a few times though might help. Somewhere I have a thread where I discuss 'standard tactical combat team' that is relevant to this discussion. (here:<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334797-How-to-be-a-munchkin-GM" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334797-How-to-be-a-munchkin-GM</a>[) Her caster level sucks, and you'll likely take off several spells, which then in turn makes are vunerable to the rest of the tactical combat team. Also, a steadier stream of attrition encounters tends to be hard on spellcasters compared to letting them go nova on single big encounters. Also, anything that is both fast and can grapple (a tiger for example) is going to present something of a problem. Also, go ahead and let her have her fun. If the ogre brutes are focusing on low AC targets, at some point she is going to have to draw aggro for the good of the party. AC is pretty useless unless you are forcing things to pay attention to you, and her 'to hit' is good but her BAB sucks so in the long run that's a problem for her. Her expected damage isn't going to be climbing all that fast.</p><p></p><p>And example tactical combat team that would put heavy pressure on this party might be:</p><p></p><p>3 5th level Orc Clerics (with dispel magic, buffs, and healing)</p><p>2 Orc Barbarian/Fighters with guisarme and optimized as trippers</p><p>5 Ogre Fighters with breastplates and ogre sized masterwork two-handed swords.</p><p></p><p>Your 'broken' character is addressed by: </p><p></p><p>1) Clerics with dispel magic can debuff her or steal actions using dispel magic. Even something such as Sound Burst is doing an automatic d8 damage and provoking her weakish Fort save to avoid losing an action.</p><p>2) The two skirmishers are fast and have a good chance of tripping her do to her low defence against combat manuevers (apparently this last part might not be true in pathfinder)</p><p>3) The ogre front line has an attack bonus around +13 when charging, and hits for about 16 damage as well as putting her in to a treat zone. Even buffed, she's threatened, and if she gets debuffed by the clerics, she's hurting in a hurry.</p><p>4) In general, she has to work to exert damage pressure on the enemy. She isn't stealing all the spot light from the rest of the party. In fact, durable or not, she's possibly irrelevant compared to the Wizard or Summoner (I'm guessing she doesn't have 'Precise Shot' either). Focus on the party threats. Make her work to become a threat.</p><p></p><p>Another example tactical combat team:</p><p></p><p>2 Tabaxi Shamans (with spell buffs)</p><p>3 Tabaxi Archers (holding actions to disrupt spell casters)</p><p>5 Tigers (with charge or flank, and assuming something like magic fang, +12 to hit)</p><p></p><p>I could keep going. I'm not feeling huge pressure on combat design from this character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6109349, member: 4937"] So, as a general rule I expect PC AC to average 14+character level. You've basically got two outliers - a human wizard that has spent no resources on AC and a twinked character that has spent a rather good deal of them. In practice though, I think the AC of your wizard would hit 21 using the same tricks as the sorcerer and the wizard would be better at those tricks (higher caster level). The Aasimar's AC is - sans spell use - actually only 19 which is pretty close to where it should be. It will probably come as no surprise that build you are complaining about depends on a lot of things I don't allow: aasimar, zen archery, and monks for example are all unavailable under my house rules (as are warforged and PrCs generally). That said, in the long run this character isn't going to be a big problem compared to your full spellcasters unless the character has a particular PrC in mind that has a lot of synergy. 3.X has huge balance issues, and Pathfinder hasn't really even tried to address that issue. If you want balance, you'll going to need to take 3.X into a different direction than Pathfinder has taken it. No. Tossing Dispel Magic at her a few times though might help. Somewhere I have a thread where I discuss 'standard tactical combat team' that is relevant to this discussion. (here:[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334797-How-to-be-a-munchkin-GM"]http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334797-How-to-be-a-munchkin-GM[/URL][) Her caster level sucks, and you'll likely take off several spells, which then in turn makes are vunerable to the rest of the tactical combat team. Also, a steadier stream of attrition encounters tends to be hard on spellcasters compared to letting them go nova on single big encounters. Also, anything that is both fast and can grapple (a tiger for example) is going to present something of a problem. Also, go ahead and let her have her fun. If the ogre brutes are focusing on low AC targets, at some point she is going to have to draw aggro for the good of the party. AC is pretty useless unless you are forcing things to pay attention to you, and her 'to hit' is good but her BAB sucks so in the long run that's a problem for her. Her expected damage isn't going to be climbing all that fast. And example tactical combat team that would put heavy pressure on this party might be: 3 5th level Orc Clerics (with dispel magic, buffs, and healing) 2 Orc Barbarian/Fighters with guisarme and optimized as trippers 5 Ogre Fighters with breastplates and ogre sized masterwork two-handed swords. Your 'broken' character is addressed by: 1) Clerics with dispel magic can debuff her or steal actions using dispel magic. Even something such as Sound Burst is doing an automatic d8 damage and provoking her weakish Fort save to avoid losing an action. 2) The two skirmishers are fast and have a good chance of tripping her do to her low defence against combat manuevers (apparently this last part might not be true in pathfinder) 3) The ogre front line has an attack bonus around +13 when charging, and hits for about 16 damage as well as putting her in to a treat zone. Even buffed, she's threatened, and if she gets debuffed by the clerics, she's hurting in a hurry. 4) In general, she has to work to exert damage pressure on the enemy. She isn't stealing all the spot light from the rest of the party. In fact, durable or not, she's possibly irrelevant compared to the Wizard or Summoner (I'm guessing she doesn't have 'Precise Shot' either). Focus on the party threats. Make her work to become a threat. Another example tactical combat team: 2 Tabaxi Shamans (with spell buffs) 3 Tabaxi Archers (holding actions to disrupt spell casters) 5 Tigers (with charge or flank, and assuming something like magic fang, +12 to hit) I could keep going. I'm not feeling huge pressure on combat design from this character. [/QUOTE]
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