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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 4670356" data-attributes="member: 5122">Why would so many players rather their PCs die than give up their stuff?Background (from my Eberron campaign): A beguiler had befriended a white dragon.  While both were somewhat villanous NPCs, their friendship was very real and very strong.  Long story shorter, the beguiler decided to turn Sharn -- a subtropical city -- into a frigid, perpetually winter wonderland for him and the dragon.Enter the PCs, as they and the beguiler race for the dragonshards necessary to pull off the plan.  The beguiler wins, builds the eldritch machine, and winter grips Sharn hard.  But the PCs find the beguiler while the dragon is otherwise occupied, and kill him.The dragon nurses revenge for quite a while, launching feints and tests on the PCs.  When she finally takes on the full group, she's defeated and retreats.  But she learns and waits.  Finally, when the group splits up, she ambushes the two PCs who weren't responsible -- weren't present -- for the beguiler's death.  The dragon doesn't really harbor any hate or need for revenge against these PCs, but if she's going to defeat the other three, these two need to be out of the picture.So she attacks.The PCs are not at all smart, and initially decide to attack.  The dragon rips into them, using her Improved Snatch feat to keep them from running (once the PCs finally accept they're hopelessly outclassed), and inflicting serious damage on them.Then she snarls, with the PCs at her feet basically like wounded rats before a lion, "You puny fools are not responsible for the death of my friend. You may live.  But you dared attack me, so you will pay as tribute to me everything you own, then you will leave Sharn forever."As DM, I figure the PCs give up their stuff (for now), and lie about leaving, and the group learns a valuable lesson about splitting up when they know they're being stalked by a huge white dragon.  The group would almost certainly equip the stripped PCs temporarily, until the dragon's lair and hoard could be located.But no ... the PCs -- remember, clearly and demonstrably no match for this dragon -- renew their attacks and the draon rips both of them to pieces, then, while being shot at ineffectually by the Sharn city watch, she cleans up the area so that it would take a true resurrection to bring the PCs back.  (Remember, again, that the dragon has been stalking the group for months.  She's well aware of their resources and ability to bring people back from the dead.)So ... why do players do this?I can't help thinking this is one of the worst effects -- out of many bad effects -- of D&D's reliance on magic items to up a PC's personal power.  But is it just that?Speaking personally, I've had characters who would refuse to back down, but it's never been because they didn't want to lose their stuff ... it's always been out of rage, or heroism, or whatever.  And I've had many characters who, in a situation like this one, would quite willingly surrender in order to live.BTW, two relevant facts:(1) My players know that I don't like killing PCs.(2) My players know very, very well that I will kill PCs.</blockquote>

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