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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 4672414" data-attributes="member: 5122"><p>No, I think you're not understanding the situation.</p><p></p><p>What I did was have a dragon that had been stalking the characters show up when they were vulnerable. I did so in such a fashion that if they had run immediately, they probably could have escaped. They decided to fight, despite having fought the dragon before, with three other allies, and barely defeated it. The dragon of course defeated them this time with extreme ease. The dragon then offered the PCs a way to live that was consistent with its goals and personality. They declined, and the dragon killed them, then, again consistent with its goals and personality, the dragon made sure that they would not be likely to trouble it again.</p><p></p><p>I'll ask again, since you chose not to answer: in order to remain consistent with your view of how things "should" have gone ...</p><p></p><p>Is the DM ever permitted to present an encounter the PCs are (nearly) certain to lose?</p><p></p><p>If so, must the DM conceal from the players that they're in a "nearly certain to lose" situation?</p><p></p><p>Is the DM ever permitted to have enemies behave with intelligence and efficiency matching that used by the PCs?</p><p></p><p>To judge from your responses, it certainly seems like you'd answer the first and third questions in the negative, and if so we'll have to agree to disagree.</p><p></p><p>(And FWIW, there is a difference between stating that I expected my group to learn a lesson and stating that I was trying to teach my group a lesson. Unsurprisingly, I said the former, and you somehow read the latter.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 4672414, member: 5122"] No, I think you're not understanding the situation. What I did was have a dragon that had been stalking the characters show up when they were vulnerable. I did so in such a fashion that if they had run immediately, they probably could have escaped. They decided to fight, despite having fought the dragon before, with three other allies, and barely defeated it. The dragon of course defeated them this time with extreme ease. The dragon then offered the PCs a way to live that was consistent with its goals and personality. They declined, and the dragon killed them, then, again consistent with its goals and personality, the dragon made sure that they would not be likely to trouble it again. I'll ask again, since you chose not to answer: in order to remain consistent with your view of how things "should" have gone ... Is the DM ever permitted to present an encounter the PCs are (nearly) certain to lose? If so, must the DM conceal from the players that they're in a "nearly certain to lose" situation? Is the DM ever permitted to have enemies behave with intelligence and efficiency matching that used by the PCs? To judge from your responses, it certainly seems like you'd answer the first and third questions in the negative, and if so we'll have to agree to disagree. (And FWIW, there is a difference between stating that I expected my group to learn a lesson and stating that I was trying to teach my group a lesson. Unsurprisingly, I said the former, and you somehow read the latter.) [/QUOTE]
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