Your mother is a toothless wHero.

[Visigani]

So, I've been contemplating releasing a book of "adjustments". I have a title and a general theme in mind but one particular part of the book has been getting kicked around on these forums lately... and that's been the vast discrepancy of power between Casters and Combatants...


To this end I'm proposing we dissolve the Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin class... and just about everything else with a BAB of +1 per.


Henceforth +1 BAB is the sole dominion of the "Hero" class.

Despite the recent advent of Harry Potter and his ilk rarely were straight casters ever the heroes of the story. More often they were advisors or companions, Merlin to Arthur so to speak.


The Hero will be a class unto itself, BAB of +1, Good Fort, base d10 hp, light armor, martial weapons.

They will also have access to a list of feats available only to "Heros" or villains as it were. Further, each, in a vein similar to the Ranger's "Weapon Mastery" will choose a "Path". Paladin, Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger and the associated benefits and drawbacks.


So, of course, wtf are these feats?


These are feats that are "Destiny" based. It's as if fate intervened to protect the Hero or to do his bidding. For example..


[Destiny] Moments of Glory
Req: BAB +16
You become virtually unkillable by mortal means. All attacks that land against you deal the least amount possible to a minimum of 1 point of damage. You are immune to any magical effect that you feel would be injurious to your person even if you would be otherwise unaware of it. The environment conspires to defend you against natural and unnatural foes alike. Should the ceiling of the cave come tumbling down, you would find yourself in a pocket untouched by debris.

Moments of Glory lasts for five rounds, and recharges once per week. You may use each of these moments consecutively, or disperse them throughout the week. You may use Moments of Glory as an immediate action. If you have already used your free, swift, or immediate action for that round you may still use Moments of Glory but sacrifice a move action the following round.



Other destiny type feats would buff the party/allies. Would grant the hero leadership of an army or band, even a sidekick.

 

[kitcik]

Depending on the strength of the Destiny feats, and assuming they don't turn the class into a "virtual caster," I would say it has the potential to be Tier 2.

I would give them heavy armor and exotic weapons. If you're going to go for it, you might as well go all the way.

I would suggest giving options like: "This Destiny feat can be exchanged for three feats selected from the General or Fighter lists, or for two class features (excluding spellcasting) from the Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin lists." This would add much more versatility to the build.

Also, to get the ToB classes in, let them sacrifice two maneuvers or stances known or two feats for any one Destiny feat for which they otherwise qualify.

Anyways, just some thoughts.

 

[Visigani]

Actually, the goal here is to reshape the game.

Your Hero takes the path of the fighter, the barbarian, the paladin, whatever... and adopts their abilities. The Hero (Paladin) would just be like the current Paladin... save that he also gains access to bonus Destiyn Feats that lets him do crazy virtually cinematic stuff... like raise an army, or live through fights that should otherwise prove insurmountable... blah blah blah.

because Destiny is on his side.


It duplicates magic insofar is that it provides lots of options to what you can do (You have an army? Whatcha wanna do with it? You're escaping the molten lava? Tell us how).

For example let's say you invoked "Moment of Glory" when some jagoff caster transmuted rock to lava around you... well, a chunk of the ceiling would fall down from the shaking and you'd jump on that at just the right moment. The DM or the Player can add the "cut Scene" as it were.

The Destiny Feats take the open endedness of the caster to an extreme where the Hero gets to play micro DM for just a round in relation to their character. Things just "fall into place" for them.

 

[Herzog]

I like the idea, although I think it needs some more detailed explanation on HOW this 'hero' would actually become a ranger-like character through the use of selectable feats/class options.

In regards to the Destiny feat:

I'd make it an ability, obtained at lvl 1.
To avoid it being dipped by casters, I'd add a paladin-like restriction: If you are able to cast spells, or ever become able to, you loose the benefit of Destiny.
I would suggest making it last 1 round per level, with a recharge rate of 1 round per day.

Another option would be to give martial classes action points (as is used in Eberron, for instance) that recharge every time you gain a level, allowing a chance for superhero results when you really need it without making it work all the time.

 

[Empirate]

Your comment regarding the player becoming a "micro DM" got me thinking... what you're aiming for is basically taking narrative control in part out of the DM's hands and into the players' hands. Primary casters do that already, if I follow you, so why not martial characters?

Well, I'm on board. However, I don't believe D&D lends itself very well to such a style of play, since the game system is, while abstract, basically simulationist in its approach. Also, you'd have to cut out a LOT of D&D's mechanical material to make this work (multiclass characters, for once).

Have you ever looked into FATE-based RPGs? There, you can select certain "Stunts" for your character, really cinematic things he/she just "can do". You can also at all times massively augment your checks drawing on a limited resource of "fate points". Both taken together give the players a lot of narrative control. The way I understand it, this is intended to let them, not the DM, describe a scene complete with its outcome from time to time.

 

[kitcik]

I think these two statements are causing confusiton:

To this end I'm proposing we dissolve the Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin class... and just about everything else with a BAB of +1 per.


Henceforth +1 BAB is the sole dominion of the "Hero" class.

Your Hero takes the path of the fighter, the barbarian, the paladin, whatever... and adopts their abilities. The Hero (Paladin) would just be like the current Paladin... save that he also gains access to bonus Destiyn Feats that lets him do crazy virtually cinematic stuff... like raise an army, or live through fights that should otherwise prove insurmountable... blah blah blah.

It's not clear whether you are saying:
1) Straight melee builds will now have access to a new line of feats called "Destiny Feats." I really like this idea.
2) There will be only one straight melee build allowed, called the Hero, who will have Destiny feats. I don't like this nearly as well.

I think creating a line of Uber feats that are only accessible to builds with no (or limited, like a Paladin) casting is a really cool idea, assuming they can be flavored as you have suggested above and are not just "casting re-fluffed."

 

[nonsi256]

If it's worth anything to you, my homebrew Warrior can easily take the role of Barbarian, Cavalier, Commando, Fighter, Knight, Paladin, Ranger, Samurai, Swashbuckler or Warlord... and feels very heroic... and is a solid Tier 3 throughout levels 1 to 20.

 

[Visigani]

Explanation of Hero Path:

Conan is a Hero, Lancelot is a Hero, Aragorn is a Hero. A barbarian, a Fighter, and a Ranger.

The Hero "path" simply means you take the feats and abilities normally applied to the original class, Fighter for example and apply it almost like you would a template.

Hero (Barbarian) would mechanically be identical to the Barbarian we play now, save that it would also get the prescribed Destiny feats at the designated level.


Explanation of Destiny Feats:

Empirate largely nailed it. It allows the Melee classes greater control over a variety of non sword swingy stuff without being bound by the rules of magic. They aren't casters, but because of their inherent "Great Destiny" things fall into place in such a fashion that it benefits them.

These feats, by their nature tend to be reactive rather than proactive, though not entirely. Further, Destiny Feats DO sometimes cost XP.

Collector of Souls [Destiny]
Once per day you may sheer a path of carnage on your way to meet your fate. For the next three rounds you automatically critically strike against any foe whose hit die is less than three quarters your own. You may continue your move action while under the influence of Collector of Souls.

Foes struck down by you while under the influence of Collector of Souls do not provide experience points.


This is an excellent example of a Destiny Feat that could easily be matched by a spell while still allowing the combatant to feel completely epic at the table.

 

[Dandu]

And monks still get left behind.

 

[nonsi256]

And monks still get left behind.

Check out what I did with the Monk. You might find it interesting.