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Your Move? Kickstarter and the Evolution of Game Crowdfunding
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<blockquote data-quote="Desh-Rae-Halra" data-source="post: 7681700" data-attributes="member: 81852"><p>I agree with Koloth for the most part. For me, when a project is in that grey area, I get unnerved a bit. </p><p>By grey area I mean they didnt just take off on a Carribbean Cruise, but did SOME work on the project, then decided "f*ck it" and dont finish.</p><p> </p><p>Sometimes this comes out in a stream of sob stories like "Well, I had to get my car registered this month, so I couldnt do anything" to "I had a cold", or "I moved", or "I'm working a lot of hours now". Usually these happen after months of no updates.</p><p></p><p>Or, the cases where the creator buys more office space (<-for a product that hasnt been created yet!), or gets themselves a new car, or travels across the country to go to conventions, and/or pays themselves a salary out of the funds. My opinion is if that is what you are going to use it for, then say so in the Kickstarter front page. It does, however; seem that courts may consider those as viable activities, even when it means you dont have to cash to complete your project anymore. </p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean you are without recourse. The recent FTC inquiries are a big win for Project Backers. If your project is way behind, you should first try and contact the project creator and work it out. There is a contract via Kickstarter that details their responsibilities. </p><p></p><p>I have found that the only thing Kickstarter is active about is that they will smack you down if you post a Project Creator's personal information in the comments (even if the creator is a deadbeat). Yes,that's right, Kickstarter can take their percent of your money, but if you post where and to whom it went geographically, you are the bad guy. </p><p></p><p>You can also file a complaint with the Attorney General's office of the State in which they reside, as long as you have the information concerning their name, address, etc. If they incorporated as a business, you can often get that by looking up the business license (usually LLC) online. Some State's Attorney General's are responsive and some aren't. </p><p></p><p>If you really are convinced this has been a case of fraud, you can file a complaint with the Internet Crimes Complaint Center </p><p><a href="http://www.ic3.gov" target="_blank">www.ic3.gov</a></p><p></p><p>But you will likely need some kind of evidence</p><p></p><p>The unfortunate lesson I learned form the Center Stage Miniatures debacle was that if you really want to pursue how the money was spent (via a civil suit), you probably need to hire an attorney in the city where the project creator lives, so unless you pledged at the $5000 level for something, you end up spending more money on an attorney (who may or may not understand Kickstarter) than the money you actually pledged to the project in the first place. </p><p></p><p>In the case of Matt Solarz/ Center Stage Miniatures, he managed to declare bankruptcy, and none of the backers were able to hire an attorney to gain access to a detailed review of how the funds were spent. A Trustee (rated almost as bad as a lawyer can get) and their boss looked over the data and didnt find anything wrong (despite lack of accurate documents). Also, dont expect much cooperation. After I initially contacted the Trustee, this was part of his response:</p><p></p><p>"But, frankly, the bankruptcy schedules say that your claim is only $250.00. I just don’t understand why you are apparently willing to invest all the time and energy over a small claim."</p><p></p><p>The worst part about the Matt Solarz/CSM debacle is that unless the Bankruptcy Trustee decides he can pay for his own/the court's time by selling off the minis that were manufactured with backers money,(which is unlikely), the property (minis) go right back to the deadbeat Project Creator. </p><p></p><p>A parting piece of info is that I learned it is a good practice not to back a second Kickstarter project until the first one is fulfilled, no matter how good the hype is. </p><p></p><p>Hope this helps some of you</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Desh-Rae-Halra, post: 7681700, member: 81852"] I agree with Koloth for the most part. For me, when a project is in that grey area, I get unnerved a bit. By grey area I mean they didnt just take off on a Carribbean Cruise, but did SOME work on the project, then decided "f*ck it" and dont finish. Sometimes this comes out in a stream of sob stories like "Well, I had to get my car registered this month, so I couldnt do anything" to "I had a cold", or "I moved", or "I'm working a lot of hours now". Usually these happen after months of no updates. Or, the cases where the creator buys more office space (<-for a product that hasnt been created yet!), or gets themselves a new car, or travels across the country to go to conventions, and/or pays themselves a salary out of the funds. My opinion is if that is what you are going to use it for, then say so in the Kickstarter front page. It does, however; seem that courts may consider those as viable activities, even when it means you dont have to cash to complete your project anymore. This doesn't mean you are without recourse. The recent FTC inquiries are a big win for Project Backers. If your project is way behind, you should first try and contact the project creator and work it out. There is a contract via Kickstarter that details their responsibilities. I have found that the only thing Kickstarter is active about is that they will smack you down if you post a Project Creator's personal information in the comments (even if the creator is a deadbeat). Yes,that's right, Kickstarter can take their percent of your money, but if you post where and to whom it went geographically, you are the bad guy. You can also file a complaint with the Attorney General's office of the State in which they reside, as long as you have the information concerning their name, address, etc. If they incorporated as a business, you can often get that by looking up the business license (usually LLC) online. Some State's Attorney General's are responsive and some aren't. If you really are convinced this has been a case of fraud, you can file a complaint with the Internet Crimes Complaint Center [url]www.ic3.gov[/url] But you will likely need some kind of evidence The unfortunate lesson I learned form the Center Stage Miniatures debacle was that if you really want to pursue how the money was spent (via a civil suit), you probably need to hire an attorney in the city where the project creator lives, so unless you pledged at the $5000 level for something, you end up spending more money on an attorney (who may or may not understand Kickstarter) than the money you actually pledged to the project in the first place. In the case of Matt Solarz/ Center Stage Miniatures, he managed to declare bankruptcy, and none of the backers were able to hire an attorney to gain access to a detailed review of how the funds were spent. A Trustee (rated almost as bad as a lawyer can get) and their boss looked over the data and didnt find anything wrong (despite lack of accurate documents). Also, dont expect much cooperation. After I initially contacted the Trustee, this was part of his response: "But, frankly, the bankruptcy schedules say that your claim is only $250.00. I just don’t understand why you are apparently willing to invest all the time and energy over a small claim." The worst part about the Matt Solarz/CSM debacle is that unless the Bankruptcy Trustee decides he can pay for his own/the court's time by selling off the minis that were manufactured with backers money,(which is unlikely), the property (minis) go right back to the deadbeat Project Creator. A parting piece of info is that I learned it is a good practice not to back a second Kickstarter project until the first one is fulfilled, no matter how good the hype is. Hope this helps some of you [/QUOTE]
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